Anti-Aging Superfoods for Your Skin & Body

Airdate: 6/16/11

Back by popular demand, Nutrition Expert Deborah Enos joins the program to discuss the top anti-aging superfoods for younger-looking skin. Discover which foods you can eat now to promote a healthier appearance from the inside out!

Bryan Barron: Good evening everyone. You are listening to "Be Beautifully Informed" with Paula Begoun and her Cosmetic's Cop/Paula's Choice team. My name is Bryan Barron and I am going to be hosting the show along with our producer, Desiree Stordahl, tonight. We are giving Paula the night off due to her travel schedule. So, hello, Desiree.
Desiree Stordahl: Hello, Bryan, I am so excited for this show tonight.
Bryan Barron: Yes, we are.
00:00:30 It's June 16. We are here on a Thursday at 6pm Pacific Time, 9 o'clock Eastern. We are going to be talking with health and nutrition expert Deborah Enos about anti-aging superfoods that benefit your skin and body. So, the type of foods that we all should be eating regularly that are going to help us look good on the outside while keeping us healthy inside. Before we get to Deborah and I will explain a little bit more about her background and where you can find out more information about her, she is a powerhouse dynamic, incredibly engaging woman.
00:01:07 And we are excited to have her back. But I wanted to just let know some of our makeup-centric listeners know, and there are a lot of you out there because whenever we do our makeup shows we get an incredible amount of you tuning in and listening to the archived shows on PaulasChoice.com. But, Desiree and I, along with our co-worker Daynah, last weekend we flew to Chicago to attend the makeup show.
00:01:35 And, Desiree, why don't you tell our listeners a bit about what the show entails and what you got out of it.
Desiree Stordahl: Right. So the show was all about makeup. They had all kinds of professional makeup artists there doing seminars and workshops as well as booth setup for different cosmetic brands. So we had the opportunity to take some hands-on workshops so there were, everything from Makeup 101 to Essential Eye Designs and different classes on how to do contouring.
00:02:03 So we, as a team, learned so much and got some new techniques and tips which we are just dying to share with you guys. So we are going to have to setup a whole other show to do that on. But it was a fabulous experience and we met lots of interesting people there, some Paula's Choice fans and customers actually. So it was really great.
Bryan Barron: Oh, that's right. Yes, yes. Desiree was in one of the classes and these were very hands-on classes where you would watch the instructor who was a makeup artist.
00:02:36 And these were fairly well-known makeup artists that do work with celebrities and work on film sets and television and for album covers and for all that kind of stuff. So it got to the point where Desiree was pulling out her own cosmetics and somebody noticed that one of them said Paula's Choice and she said, "Oh my gosh, I love Paula's Choice. I use the anti-acne products. They completely cleared up my skin."
00:03:04 And, what, within a couple of minutes Desiree you had all of these women buzzing around your station?
Desiree Stordahl: Yes, it was like it was a setup informercial, but it wasn't. Everybody just really wanted to know about the products or actually had already used them themselves and they were just gushing about them. So it was a really cool experience.
Bryan Barron: And, yes, we all had to bring our own makeup. At least that is what they told us. And then when we got to the classes there was just table after table with all kinds of stuff laid out that we were allowed to take.
00:03:34 But I don't know. If you do makeup often enough you do become more comfortable with the products that you know work and lord knows we test enough makeup around here. So, yes, it was a really fun weekend. It was great to be back in Chicago. We were right across the street from Harpo Studios where the Oprah Winfrey Show just wrapped up 25 years on the air.
00:04:00 So, that was a little bit bittersweet that we were so close to Harpo Studios. I almost won a car or a trip to Australia. Oh, Oprah. Anyway, so yes; I think that we will do that show again and one of the things that I would like to do – I had a really nice chat with a couple of the folks who represent Kevyn Aucoin. Kevyn Aucoin is a makeup artist. He has since passed away, but probably the most well known male makeup artist of the modern day, of the last ten, twenty years or so.
00:04:38 And before he passed away, his lasting legacy, so to speak, was his own namesake line. We have yet to review it. We are asked about it every now and then and honestly until we got a Neiman Marcus in the Seattle area, I think that is the only place in town here where you can find it. But they had almost all of his products at his show.
00:05:00 These people were amazing. They were excited about the work we do on Beautypedia and just as a little sneak peak for our listeners who may be curious about what Kevyn Aucoin's products are like, we had the opportunity to play with several of them and actually purchased a few of them because one of the perks about going to this makeup show that we weren't aware of is that a lot of the companies there were selling their makeup for super cheap prices, I mean 60%, 70%, 40% off.
00:05:30 So, we were able to get a few new items and we are going to be testing them out. We will tell you about them, but just as a sneak peak, Kevyn Aucoin's Powder Blush, his eye shadows, he has a liquid eye shadow, they were all really, really nice. Just super smooth textures. I noticed that most of them were made in Italy and I remember back when I was working more product development with Paula's Choice I met with some Italian companies that were known as "Color Houses."
00:06:03 That's all they did for the industry was makeup . And, time after time these companies produced powders and cream-to-powder foundations, stick foundations, with just the most sublimely smooth textures. They were just amazing. And their pigment technology is incredible. I'm guessing that some of that has trickled down to the United States and other companies because I am seeing an improvement in that across the board, whether you are shopping for makeup at the drugstore or the department store.
00:06:37 But all right, enough makeup talk. Paula is going to be back in a couple of weeks live on the show, so I am going to go ahead and introduce our special guest, Deborah Enos. Deborah, are you there?
Deborah Enos: I am here. And I am really excited to be on the show.
Bryan Barron: Well we are thrilled to have you back.
00:06:58 I had so much fun listening. I'm actually pleased now that I get more of a chance to talk to you because I know Paula was so excited to talk to you last time that I really couldn't get a word in edgewise. But Paula wanted me to tell you that she is off the Splenda.
Deborah Enos: Oh, I'm so – you mean she is off of chlorine, that's good.
Bryan Barron: Exactly, yes. And she literally was kind of like – it was kind of like somebody quitting smoking.
00:07:27 She literally weaned herself off of the Splenda little by little.
Deborah Enos: Really? Wow, that is such good news. Honestly. There are so many great, natural sweeteners out there that Splenda – they did a very good job marketing it but it is not an all-natural sweetener.
Bryan Barron: Right, exactly. And personally I have never liked the aftertaste of it.
Deborah Enos: I agree. Yeah, the after taste is an acquired taste.
Bryan Barron: It is. It is, yeah. But Deborah, before we talk about anti-aging superfoods for skin and body, you have come up with a great list here.
00:08:03 Just so our listeners know, you are an author, you are a motivational speaker and a health coach. You specialize in working with busy people and you have written a book.
Deborah Enos: I have written a book.
Bryan Barron: "Weight a Minute."
Deborah Enos: Yep.
Bryan Barron: And tell our listeners just a quick synopsis of what your book can do for them.
Deborah Enos: Well, after 22 years in this business, the running seam I saw is that even if people didn't have a job, they were all really busy. They were busy with kids and volunteering and you name it.
00:08:38 So everybody wants great results but in a microwave format. So they want it in seconds. So what I realized is that since I personally don't like reading 400-page books on nutrition even though I am a nutritionist. I decided to write a book that was only a couple of hundred pages, but each chapter could be read in 60 seconds or less.
00:09:02 So it is perfect for – read a chapter before you go to bed, read a chapter at lunch. I mean you can literally read a chapter in one minute. And I just made it super convenient and most of the book is actually in bullet points so that even if you are just so busy you want to pull your hair out, you can still pick up something that could actually make you healthier the next day. And so my philosophy is all about baby steps.
00:09:28 I don't go in and change somebody's entire life, even if they want me to, because usually when you go in and you just make these giant changes, they don't last. It can be as simple as "let's just have breakfast every day if you don't normally have breakfast every day." And people who eat breakfast burn an extra 55,000 calories a year. That's pretty good news.
Bryan Barron: Well considering that an extra pound of weight constitutes about, what, 3,500 calories?
Deborah Enos: 3,500, yes.
Bryan Barron: So what does that work out to a year in terms of extra weight?
Deborah Enos: It works out to be between 14 and 16 pounds of fat a year that you would burn just by eating.
00:10:08 So that is really fun advice to give to people because I think a lot of people think of their body as a bank. And they think, "Okay, I'm going to make a giant deposit tonight, going out with girlfriends. So I am not going to make any deposits during the day." And that's not the way your body wants to live. And it needs a constant supply of calories coming in, meaning eating four, five or six times a day.
00:10:31 And then your body says, "Okay, right, great, Desiree is going to eat today, so that means I can take some of those fat from her rear end and burn it."
Bryan Barron: Although she hardly has any there to begin with.
Deborah Enos: Not that I've seen, Desiree, so anyway.
Bryan Barron: So, Deborah, I'm sure you have heard this before from your clients, we have all heard it from people. But as a nutritionist, what do you tell men and women you work with when they say –
00:11:00 "Yeah, Deborah, I understand I should eat breakfast, but the thing is, I'm just not hungry in the morning."
Deborah Enos: You know, that's probably the most common thing that I hear, too, Bryan after 20-something years. And my next question is, okay, how big is your dinner? And then they usually kind of look down and smile and they say, "Well it's kind of thanksgiving every night." A lot of reason why people aren't hungry in the morning is because dinner was thanksgiving and it's huge.
00:11:27 And they ate way too much so they are still kind of full in the morning. So if you begin to cut back on your dinner even just 10%. Maybe you cut back on taking five bites of food, you will eventually be hungry in the morning. Also, if you have been skipping breakfast for most of your life which is how a lot of my clients have been, sometimes you have to – I hate to say force yourself to eat – but you may just have to force yourself to eat. Maybe even 100 calories. Maybe that is a handful of almonds.
00:12:01 Or it is a banana with some peanut butter. And then after about 30 to 45 days you will actually begin to get hungry in the morning.
Bryan Barron: I'm one of those people who I have to eat within the first half hour of waking up. And if I don't -- you don't want to be around me. I mean it is not – you know how some people will say, "Don't talk to me until I have had my first cup of coffee." I'm like, don't talk to me until I am at least halfway through my breakfast.
Deborah Enos: That's great.
00:12:28 But that's totally the way your body was intended to operate. So you are doing the right things.
Bryan Barron: Well that's good to know.
Deborah Enos: Isn't that good?
Bryan Barron: So you came up with, let's see, eight superfoods that men and women can eat and all of these were picked by you because they have one or more benefits for our skin, for our overall appearance for what we project to the world. So let's go over those.
Deborah Enos: Okay.
00:12:57 So my number one pick and this makes the list year after year is blueberries. Blueberries are probably one of the most amazing antioxidants – actually they are one of the most amazing antioxidants on the planet. And the good news about blueberries is actually the antioxidants help protect your skin from premature aging. So, what my part of this show is really all about tonight is how do you work on anti-wrinkling and anti-aging from the inside out.
00:13:30 And blueberries will make a tremendous difference. And what I also love about blueberries is that it is really a twelve month a year fruit even though it seems like it is just a summer fruit. But you can still get good blueberries in the winter, but they are frozen. And it is absolutely fine to use frozen blueberries in the winter. You are not going to lose any nutritional or anti-aging benefit by using frozen blueberries.
Bryan Barron: Now what about buying blueberries –
00:14:01 Like in our local grocery stores, now I am not talking the Whole Foods, because I am sure it is different there, I just don't have one that is near my home and we grocery shop wherever is closest to our home for the most part.
Deborah Enos: Right.
Bryan Barron: For example my Safeway sells blueberries from Chile, or apples from Brazil or something. And I read the "Omnivores Dilemma" sometime ago by Michael Pollan, excellent book to really get you to think about where our food comes from and –that's another topic.
00:14:36 But, where can we find blueberries that are made in the United States? Do we have to go to a farmer's market? Do we have to go to Whole Foods?
Deborah Enos: Great question. So there are a couple of things that I do. First of all, now that the farmer's markets are flourishing, blueberries are – it's still a little early here in the Pacific Northwest to get really great blueberries.
00:14:59 But those will be coming in probably in the next couple of weeks. So what I did last summer is I bought flats and flats of blueberries, washed them, put them in Ziploc bags and froze them. So, I had blueberries all winter, but they were wonderful, organic blueberries grown in the Pacific Northwest. Other things that I would do – Trader Joe's if I can mention names of markets.
Desiree Stordahl: Oh, yeah, that's fine.
Deborah Enos: They do a great job of having frozen, organic, wild blueberries.
00:15:35 And wild blueberries are even more nutritious than just the regular blueberries. The wild blueberries are the little ones. So I would get those at Trader Joe's. So as I am making dinner at night I will open a bag of the frozen blueberries. I put them in a little colander, run a little bit of warm water on them, and that ends up being our family's dessert after dinner. So a half a cup as a serving, it's really not that much to get this really great skin anti-aging substance in.
00:16:05 Half a cup is really just putting it in the palm of your hand. So it really can go pretty quickly. And so that is a great way to go. And then also, do check your labels. Even places like Costco actually has blueberries grown in the US and I am even finding organic blueberries. So I think it is probably just going to be different from store to store. And I know that bigger stores like Costco, they have different regions.
00:16:33 So right now I think farmer's market and frozen are still your best bet if you want to get something that is grown in the US. I read that Michael Pollan book, also, and I was shocked to learn that most of the food on my plate had traveled 1,500 miles to get here. And so I decided I'm really going to try to just do local. And so that's why I go to my farmer's markets literally every weekend. And I just start freezing food.
Bryan Barron: All right, well what's number two?
Deborah Enos: Number two is wild salmon, not farm-raised.
00:17:08 I now ask every time I am dining out, I know the salmon special sounds so wonderful and I will say, so, where is it from? "Oh, it's from this little farm." Okay, and then I immediately, I don't order it. Wild salmon, wild Alaskan salmon is one of the best foods on the planet.
00:17:27 You know it is a wonderful source of Omega-3 fatty acids. And I have been hearing about Omega-3's for 20 years but it has really only been the last ten years that I have been very religiously taking them. And I wish I would have started 20 years ago when I first heard about them. And wild salmon and these great fish like wild salmon, the fatty fish, have wonderful sources of Omega-3 fatty acids. Wild Alaskan is really going to be your most pure salmon. So, if you can't afford it – I mean I know it is an expensive fish. So I end up usually getting it frozen and it is going to be a little bit less expensive that way.
00:18:09 And then if you – I have clients who say I won't eat anything that comes out of the ocean, they just don't like the taste of it, so you can also do fish oil and you will get basically the same effect.
Bryan Barron: Are there any guidelines that we need to know about when we are shopping for fish oil?
00:18:30 Because I have seen fish oil or Omega-3 supplements and the price range is all over the place.
Deborah Enos: I know. I know.
Bryan Barron: Do we need to spend more? Can we get the Walgreens store brand or should we really be looking at something else?
Deborah Enos: Well, you know, if you get them at Walgreens, nothing personal, or just that corner chain drugstore, you are going to be burping mackerel all day. I mean that is a terrible feeling, isn't it? You feel like at eight o'clock in the morning you had a tuna sandwich and you are thinking, where did that burp come from?
Bryan Barron: Exactly.
Deborah Enos: So you definitely get what you pay for when it comes to fish oil.
00:19:08 So, the brand is really important. There are a few that I really like. Can I go ahead and mention them?
Desiree Stordahl: Yeah, go ahead.
Bryan Barron: Oh, yeah.
Deborah Enos: So Nordic Naturals is a wonderful brand of fish oil. And what I like about them is on the Nordic Naturals website they have a lot of great studies that are really user friendly even if you don't have a degree in nutrition – really interesting and easy to read.
00:19:36 I also think Carlson is a really great brand. And that is pretty readily available at most health food stores.
Bryan Barron: That's the brand I use.
Deborah Enos: Carlson is really good. I really like them. And these nicer brands, these better brands, not the corner drugstore – what they do is they actually clean up the fish oil and they get rid of all the mercury and the toxins and the DDT and all of the yucky stuff that fish are going to be eating in the ocean.
00:20:05 And so they really clean up the fish oil and it is really important to make sure it says that on the bottle that it has been cleaned of toxins.
Bryan Barron: Okay, so did you come across that study on the Omega-3 consumption and the increased risk of prostate cancer for men?
Deborah Enos: I did and it was actually – I won't say I am really disturbed by it because I always like to see two or three studies before I really render my own opinion on it. But I will say about that is it was done in Seattle at Fred Hutchinson which is a wonderful cancer, they do a lot of great cancer research there. And what they found is that with prostate cancer there is a type that is very aggressive.
00:21:00 And men who were taking fish oil had more growth of the aggressive type of prostate cancer. So that was really stunning and surprising. And even the gentlemen, I think his name was Brasky who did the study was saying, "Oh my gosh, we ran the study again and again and we were really shocked." But he was also saying, you know I think his quote was something along the lines of "the beneficial effect of eating fish to prevent heart disease will far outweigh any harm with prostate cancer risk."
00:21:38 So, fish oil has really been touted for years as a great heart-healthy supplement for food to be eating. And I completely agree with him. Heart disease is running rampant in the US. And I am actually on the board of the American Heart Association so I can really speak to this that when you have a heart incident, the recovery isn't – sometimes it is not that good.
00:22:07 And so if you can do some things that will really protect your heart, this is going to really pay off. And that is basically what this gentleman who ran this study was saying is that the benefits of taking fish oil far outweigh the prostate risk in his opinion.
Bryan Barron: And then I see you also mention spinach.
Deborah Enos: I did. I did. Do you eat spinach?
Bryan Barron: Not as much as I should. But I do like it and whenever the spinach salad is on sale I grab a couple of bags.
00:22:39 But I have a tendency to buy produce with the best intentions and then I forget that it is there.
Deborah Enos: I know. It's challenging.
Bryan Barron: And before too long you are like, okay, not looking so fresh.
Deborah Enos: I know. part of the problem is we put it in the crisper and then out of sight, out of mind. Gosh.
00:22:59 As much as I am not a big planner with food, I plan my workouts, I plan vacations, but I am not that great with food, I'm trying to plan my meals on Sunday when I buy all of my produce. So I now that spinach has a shelf life of about five days in my fridge. I need to make sure that it is gone by Thursday. I try to plan. But spinach, oh my goodness, what a great powerhouse of a vegetable.
00:23:26 You know one of the things that is interesting about spinach is it also has Omega-3 fatty acids in it, similar to – not as much as a salmon – but there are lots of great things about spinach. It's also a good source of B and C and potassium. Just really phenomenal for your skin. And that is really going to help your collagen. It's really going to strengthen those collagen scaffolding I like to call it. So, spinach is a great thing to do, be it cooked, be it a raw spinach salad.
00:23:59 I never buy iceberg, I don't know if you guys buy the lighter color lettuces, but the darker the better, and that's really what you are going for with the spinach. And so I do spinach – like if I make a pasta salad, I usually throw greens in. You know people will throw basil. I actually throw a combination of basil and spinach in. So it is just another way to get more spinach into my family.
Bryan Barron: Sure, okay. And you can also just throw some into a fruit smoothie and you probably wouldn't even notice.
Deborah Enos: Oh, that's a great idea.
00:24:34 I'm coming over to your house tomorrow morning for breakfast.
Desiree Stordahl: And I've noticed that Subway is now carrying spinach so I have used that instead of lettuce on my sub sandwiches and they taste so much better. It's way better.
Deborah Enos: Yeah, it's a little heartier. You feel like you are actually eating something substantial. And that's really great to know that about Subway. Wow, that's actually really surprising, but great.
00:25:00 I mean Subway is a good source of veggies if you know how to order there.
Bryan Barron: And then this next one on the list, Deborah, surprised me. So what is number four?
Deborah Enos: Okay, number four, and you know what, I had to write this down kicking and screaming. I was at the Issaquah Famer's Market the other day which is here in Washington. And they were doing an oyster demonstration and cooking the oysters and giving out samples. And I thought, oh man, oysters – this is a tough one for me.
00:25:30 I'm a texture girl and I am just not in love with the texture of oysters.
Bryan Barron: It's a polarizing food. Let's say that.
Deborah Enos: You know, that's a good way to say it. So I had one and I thought, you know, this isn't bad. When it is cooked and it has a little bit of sauce on it, okay, I can do oysters. And then I came back to my office and I thought, I need to look this up. Are oysters really that great for you? I was hoping it wouldn't be so I would never have to eat them again.
00:26:00 But here's the deal – it is – it makes the list all the time as an anti-aging food. And the reason why is it is a great source of zinc. And so what zinc does is actually zinc will help your cells to turn over and renew and repair. I mean we slather tons of lotion on our skin at night to do that. But maybe if we ate oysters a couple times during the week, plugged our nose and ate some oysters, we could really get that zinc from the inside out.
00:26:34 And another study I read about zinc is that Americans are chronically deficient in zinc to the tune of about 70% of Americans being deficient in zinc. So, we really need to figure out ways to get more zinc into our diet. So, Bryan, it sounds like you are not a super big fan of oysters, so maybe I need to come up with an alternative for you?
Bryan Barron: Oh, I'm not.
00:27:01 But just off the top of your head, what are some other nutrient rich sources for zinc?
Deborah Enos: So what about pumpkin seeds. Would you do pumpkin seeds?
Bryan Barron: Absolutely.
Deborah Enos: Okay, so what I would do is I would go to Trader Joe's, they have raw pumpkin seeds and then they have salted pumpkin seeds. Raw is always going to be better for you because it is just more in a natural state, but what you could do is you could get a bag of the raw and a bag of the salted and just mix them like if you wanted a little bit of extra flavor.
00:27:30 So put it in a Ziploc, take it to work. A shot glass – I'm sure you have one of those, Bryan, don't you?
Bryan Barron: I have a few, yep.
Deborah Enos: So take a shot glass is the perfect serving size. You could just keep that shot glass in your big container of pumpkin seeds and just fill up your Ziploc bags and you are good to go.
Bryan Barron: Perfect. What about tomatoes?
Deborah Enos: Oh, tomatoes are great. So we are coming into tomato season. Desiree, do you eat tomatoes?
Desiree Stordahl: I do.
00:28:00 I love tomatoes.
Deborah Enos: So what is your favorite way to eat them?
Desiree Stordahl: Well, I will eat them just raw and regular, but I get tomato from ketchup, from my pasta.
Deborah Enos: Okay, we may need to talk. So ketchup – did you know ketchup is 30% sugar?
Desiree Stordahl: Oh, no.
Deborah Enos: I know. Isn't that terrible? I think we can make our own ketchup.
00:28:29 So and sugar is basically death to your collagen, so it is going to kind of cancel out the effects of all the other things I'm talking about. So, I think there probably are some low-sugar ketchups on the market. So anyway, just check those out. I know this is kind of a little off topic. But tomatoes are fantastic because they have a great anti-aging antioxidant called lycopene. And lycopene is just – it is just amazing for your skin.
00:29:00 But what is interesting about lycopene in tomatoes is that the tomatoes are actually better off a little bit cooked and your body will absorb and break down the lycopene much better. So how I do tomatoes in the summer, I will go back to that pasta salad reference. I get a huge container from the farmer's market. Or actually Costco has great cherry tomatoes.
00:29:27 I slice them in half, I wash them and slice them in half because they are actually pretty good size. And then as the pasta salad is still warm and I am starting to throw vinegar and oil and things in, I throw the tomatoes in and it cooks the tomatoes just enough that your body can really break down the antioxidants. And so it just makes it much easier for your body to absorb it that way.
Desiree Stordahl: That's interesting because most fruits and vegetables you hear about – raw, raw, raw – raw is all better for you. So it's interesting that there is one where it is better when it is cooked or processed.
Deborah Enos: Yeah, it is interesting because I agree with you.
00:30:02 We have been preaching the raw message for so long, but this lycopene information, actually most of the research came from Italy and it was done on pizza sauce. And they found that men who ate pizza in Italy and that was their main source of tomatoes, either tomato sauce or tomatoes on top of the pizza and cooked, and they absorbed so much more lycopene than people who were eating them raw.
Bryan Barron: And then we have walnuts?
Deborah Enos: Yeah.
00:30:33 Do you guys eat walnuts?
Bryan Barron: You know, I found a kind I like, but they are baked in butter and brown sugar.
Deborah Enos: Well, gee, that is such a surprise. Just kidding. That sounds great. I think I know the ones you are talking about because I have used them before and you sprinkle them on top of a salad.
Bryan Barron: Yes.
Deborah Enos: Oh my gosh, they are so good.
Bryan Barron: They are yummy.
Deborah Enos: They are so yummy.
00:31:02 And walnuts, nuts in general. You know, it's interesting. After being in this business for 20-something years, twenty years ago I told my clients never eat nuts because they are high in calories and they are high in fat. And I hope all of those clients from 20 years ago went to somebody else for information. Because it turns out it was terrible information. I'm mortified.
00:31:27 But anyway nuts are phenomenal and they are full of antioxidants. They are full of heart-healthy fat. They are phenomenal for your skin. And then there are nuts like almonds that lower your cholesterol, there are nuts like walnuts that are also really great for your heart. Pistachios are great for lowering cholesterol. You know it is interesting – every nut kind of does something different in your body. The biggest challenge with nuts is the serving size.
00:32:00 And the serving size, go back to that shot glass. And that is a serving size.
Bryan Barron: Oh man, that's not very many walnuts.
Deborah Enos: It's not. And so when you fly on Southwest Airlines and they give you the little packet of nuts, and you think, hey, you really ripped me off. I mean, that actually is a serving size.
Bryan Barron: That's a serving size? Oh my gosh.
Deborah Enos: That's a serving size.
Bryan Barron: Oy. And then you, did we have a fruit yet? We didn't have a fruit. Well, blueberries started the list. But then you also wanted to talk about kiwi.
Deborah Enos: Yes, are either of you fans of kiwi?
Desiree Stordahl: Oh, I love kiwi.
Bryan Barron: I just started loving it.
00:32:40 Our neighbor gave us a huge bag of fresh ones that she got from her dad's farm and they are awesome.
Deborah Enos: Aren't they great? I mean they are so unattractive.
Bryan Barron: I was kind of afraid of them. They are just something you kind of walk by in the grocery store and you think of as, oh, that's a garnish for a cocktail.
00:33:00 Leave it to me to think that.
Deborah Enos: That's another show, Bryan.
Desiree Stordahl: I think the problem with kiwis is that they are so hard to get the skin off that sometimes it deters you from eating them. But they are so good once you get the skin off.
Deborah Enos: They are. And you want me to tell you my trick, Desiree, to get the skin off?
Desiree Stordahl: Yes.
Deborah Enos: Okay, so I slice them in half, and then I grab a spoon and I just scoop out the entire kiwi. I just go right under the skin and I just pop the whole thing out.
Desiree Stordahl: Yeah, I have actually done that before.
00:33:30 That is a lot easier.
Deborah Enos: You don't have to peel them. They are so easy. And you know it is interesting. Kiwi has one of the highest levels of vitamin C of any fruit and vegetable. So, it really packs a punch. And vitamin C is one of the first antioxidants that gets used during times of stress. So if you are having a rough day or you are commuting and it is terrible or even just –
00:34:00 Actually this is surprisingly stressful to your body – walking in and out of air conditioning and we are coming into summer so this might be a good topic. You are outside and it is really hot and then you walk into your office and it is cool and you go out to get something from your car. Every time you do that you actually eat through your vitamin C.
Bryan Barron: Yikes.
Desiree Stordahl: No kidding.
Deborah Enos: So it is really stressful to your body to have those extremes of temperature changes. And it is also stressful to your body to inhale chemicals. So, if you go home tonight and your mirror is all messy in your bathroom and you spray some Windex on there and wipe it off, inhaling those chemicals will also eat through your vitamin C.
00:34:39 So it is really important to be eating vitamin C on an ongoing basis so you are not just going to have kiwi and an orange for breakfast, but to really pick vitamin C-rich foods throughout your day. So maybe you have an orange with your Greek yogurt and something else in the morning. And then in the afternoon maybe you have a snack of kiwis and carrot sticks and hummus.
00:35:04 So, just trying to figure out how do I get more vitamin C foods into my body.
Desiree Stordahl: Got it.
Bryan Barron: Good call. I have been really enjoying the sliced kiwi just mixed into plain yogurt.
Deborah Enos: Oh.
Bryan Barron: And I think I mentioned in my message to you that I have been weaning myself off of the fruit-flavored really sugary yogurts since the last time we had you on the show.
00:35:30 And it has taken some time because plain yogurt, just eating plain, is not good.
Deborah Enos: I know. It's really an acquired taste isn't it? Oh my goodness.
Bryan Barron: But you add in, like I have been using fresh grapefruit segments or recently the sliced kiwi and it is a huge, huge difference. I don't miss the extra sweetness. I don't know how much more sweetness adding the fruit is compared to the store-bought kind with the fruit on the bottom.
00:36:00 But I am assuming I am doing something better.
Deborah Enos: You are doing something much better. And the fruit is natural. So you are putting in kiwi which is a huge dose of vitamin C. It is fresh because you just sliced up the kiwi. If you guy, let's just say a Dannon Blueberry yogurt. Okay, first of all, were those really blueberries? I'm kind of teasing, but you know how many blueberries were actually in there? How much dye is in there to make it look like it is blue? And then how much sugar and/or high fructose corn syrup was added to it?
00:36:31 So either you are doing a really great thing of adding your own real fruit to it, and it sweetens it up and you know, if you are getting your fruit at the farmer's market, or something local, you know that it hasn't traveled 1,500 miles to become a part of your breakfast.
Bryan Barron: All right, now to close out the list you left us with what I would consider dessert – dark chocolate.
Deborah Enos: Oh, boy.
00:37:00 This is a good one. And you know what is so cool about dark chocolate – I mentioned earlier that with lettuce or greens, the darker the better, well same thing with dark chocolate. Same thing with honey. Same thing with wine, actually, if we are going to get right down to the down and dirty. The darker it is, the better it is going to be for you. So you can have white chocolate and that might satisfy your sweet tooth a little bit, but dark chocolate is really going to satisfy your sweet tooth.
00:37:31 And you know I can't really say it is a vitamin, but I can come pretty close to saying this is a really good high antioxidant and really great way to end your meal by having dark chocolate.
Bryan Barron: And you mentioned that they had to contain 60%?
Deborah Enos: Yes, of the cacao which cacao, I don't know if you know what that is, but that is the bean that chocolate is made from.
Bryan Barron: Okay. And Desiree, did you have a question?
Deborah Enos: So that is the actual bean.
00:38:02 So, 60% is going to be kind of the low side. So I like 60% to about 70%. The more cacao you have in there, so the more pure chocolate, the more bitter it is going to be. And so what I find that is really interesting, you can taste wine. And I think red wine is so interesting because sometimes it tastes like raspberries or it has really oaky or woodsy – but really the same thing happens with chocolate.
00:38:32 So if you have a 60% dark chocolate bar, it's going to taste different than an 80%.
Bryan Barron: That makes sense.
Deborah Enos: So you can do a wine and chocolate tasting for the show.
Bryan Barron: I'm there.
Desiree Stordahl: We actually have a Facebook question exactly about the wine question. And the Facebook person wants to know how much is considered okay for the wine consumption? Like you want to get the benefit of the antioxidants but you don't want to overdo it and end up with worse results because you are drinking too much. So what is the appropriate amount?
Deborah Enos: Yes.
00:39:05 And so again, with alcohol, always the dark red wine is your best bet. And there are so many great things in red wine. But so for those listeners that don't drink wine at all, you can basically do the same thing if you do grape juice. So, first of all, it doesn't have to be red wine. It can be grape juice. It's going to be a little bit different of a benefit, but the majority of it will be there.
00:39:33 You know, according to the government they say that two glasses of wine a day are good and healthy and safe. But as a nutritionist, if I have a client who is drinking two glasses of wine a day, that's a lot of wine. And the problem with that is when you drink two cocktails like that a day, it is going to lower your inhibitions in so many ways. But certainly from a food standpoint.
00:40:00 And so my clients who are drinking a couple of glasses of wine a day have the most challenge losing weight. So, just for my anecdotal experience, I would say one glass a day would be safe, and hey, Friday night, woo-hoo, you are going to go out and have two, okay. But, for the most part if you are doing some sort of an alcoholic drink on a daily basis, one is plenty.
Bryan Barron: Now just real quick, just to clarify and I want to get to caller questions. A glass.
00:40:35 Wine glasses come in all shapes and sizes. So from a nutritionist perspective, how much is a glass?
Deborah Enos: That's a great question. And you are going to see everything from between 4oz to 6 oz. So I am going to meet you in the middle and say it is a 5oz pour.
Bryan Barron: All right, and if any of you at home aren't familiar with what a 5oz pour looks like, it is a little more than half of a cup. So, if you have one of those ginormous wine glasses, and you have been filling it up to the brim thinking, well, that is a glass.
00:41:08 I mean I drink wine. I have done it. I have seen people do it. And I really think that psychologically when you are using those jumbo wine or margarita glasses or whatever the case may be, it is a lot easier to trick yourself into drinking more than you should.
Deborah Enos: I completely agree. And, we have these really beautiful, I think they are called Reidel glasses that you put the wine in and you swirl it and the air releases – whatever.
00:41:35 It is supposed to be really fabulous. And you know they are big glasses. You could fit practically half a bottle of wine in one glass.
Bryan Barron: Exactly.
Deborah Enos: So it might be a little much.
Bryan Barron: And notice when you are out at a restaurant and you order a glass of red wine and they serve it in the appropriate glass to match the type of wine you ordered, you might be sitting there thinking, well that's kind of a stingy pour.
00:42:00 And it is not a stingy pour. That is about how much – that is a glass.
Deborah Enos: You know, that is so true. That just happened to me the other day and I thought, wow, what a cheap place. I paid a lot of money for that glass of wine. And it was so tiny.
Desiree Stordahl: All right, Deborah are you going to stay on the line? Our first caller is Tamara from Florida.
Bryan Barron: Hi Tamara.
Tamara: Hi. I'm so surprised. I'm sitting here snacking on a salad with spinach in it.
Deborah Enos: Way to go Tamara.
Tamara: But anyway, I just wanted –
00:42:36 I really appreciated your list but I wanted to know what you thought about foods that were just the opposite – what would you consider the worst foods or food ingredients in this battle against aging?
Deborah Enos: Oh, that is such a great question. And Tamara, how much time do we have Bryan to get into that one?
Bryan Barron: Why don't you give her –
00:43:02 Well first of all, we are going to give Tamara a new product from the Paula's Choice line that is not widely available yet. You can like us on Facebook.com. But it is called our Resist Anti-aging Clear Skin Hydrator. And it contains lots of antioxidants, so same ingredients that Deborah has been talking about getting from food.
00:43:25 Antioxidants are something that you really can't get too much of, whether you are eating them or you are applying them topically. So, we will get that out to you. And then Deborah, maybe three of the worst items we could eat to sabotage our looks?
Deborah Enos: Perfect. Okay, number one would be trans-fatty acids, also called hydrogenated fats. So when you look at a food label and this is an FDA-approved snafu. It might say on the label "Zero trans-fats" but then the first ingredient might be trans-fat.
00:44:03 The way the government gets away with this is as long as it doesn't reach half of a gram per serving, they can call it "zero." Only problem is, what if you eat more than a serving. It's terrible. So that is one of the worst foods on the planet. It is going to jack up your cholesterol levels and it is going to jack up your inflammation levels which means you are going to get that icky reddy looking skin because you have such inflammation in your body.
00:44:33 And then according to the American Heart Association, one out of five heart attacks is linked to trans-fatty acid.
Bryan Barron: You're kidding! Wow.
Deborah Enos: No, it's terrible. Hundreds of thousands of people die each year unnecessarily because of trans-fatty acid. And this terrible ruling by the FDA that says as long as it says 0.49 grams, which is less than half a gram, it is okay to call it zero.
00:45:01 But as soon as it goes beyond that 0.49 then they have to say, oopsie, there actually is trans-fat in this item. And so I actually did a segment on this for a TV show here in Seattle and I went to a super market and I picked up all of these kid's snacks, and you know they are the ones who are eating it. So anything that comes in a box or a bag might have this in there.
00:45:30 What you want to look for is no partially hydrogenated or hydrogenated fats. So, that is a terrible one. What else I would say to avoid is high fructose corn syrup and sugar. So both of those are going to cause inflammation in your skin and in your entire body. But the sugar, I'm not sure, I have to check statistically if on the high fructose corn syrup it breaks down collagen, but sugar –
00:46:01 And research after research study has been shown to break down collagen which is exactly what we don't want as we are aging. We really want strong scaffolding under our skin.
Tamara: Okay.
Bryan Barron: In terms of sugar, Deborah, I mean I know high fructose corn syrup is one thing and it is technically not sugar, but in terms of what the body – doesn't the body view things like fructose and honey or agave nectar, all of these emerging alternatives to sugar, aren't they all the same thing once they are inside the body?
Deborah Enos: You know, really great question.
00:46:36 Some of them are metabolized differently. So for example agave, Stevia, Xylitol. I am giving you a lot of names here. But, many of those don't spike the blood sugar. And so that's really what people are looking for, especially those who are diabetic or maybe pre-diabetic. They are looking for – I will say it this way. They are looking to have their cake and eat it, too.
00:47:04 And I would, too, if I was diabetic. I want to know I can have something sweet and it wouldn't really raise my blood sugar levels. So, I totally understand the reasoning why but some are better than others. If I picked any natural sweeteners, what I probably would pick would be Stevia. Truvia is another good version of that.
00:47:30 And I still like Agave as well which comes from the cactus plant.
Bryan Barron: Awesome, and we can probably find all of those at Trader Joe's, right?
Deborah Enos: You know, you can find the Agave at Trader Joe's and at Costco. Truvia – Costco. And then probably like a Whole Foods kind of a market for the other ones.
Bryan Barron: Okay, got it. Desiree, next caller.
Tamara: Well thank you.
Deborah Enos: Certainly, Tamara, no problem.
Bryan Barron: Thank you.
Desiree Stordahl: And Tamara, we will be sending you a copy of Deborah's book "Weight a Minute" as well as the Anti-Aging Clear Skin Hydrator.
Bryan Barron: I'm being a terrible host.
00:48:06 Yes, all of our callers are going to get a free copy of Deborah's book so you can start making those lifestyle changes in less than a minute and keep building on those.
Desiree Stordahl: And, Deborah, anyone who doesn't get your book from being a caller, can they just go to DeborahEnos.com to purchase it or where can they find it?
Deborah Enos: They can. That's the best place to get it. So DeborahEnos.com. That's a great place to do it.
00:48:29 I also do a weekly newsletter that is free. They can sign up for that. And I also know that I am really giving a lot of information, so I might post some of that there or maybe send it to you guys to post on your website because I know I am giving you all of these Agaves and Xylitols information which might be a little overwhelming.
Desiree Stordahl: Perfect. And we will also have the show archived so everyone can go back and listen and the transcript of the show will be available on our PaulasChoice.com community page.
Deborah Enos: Great. Great.
Desiree Stordahl: So, our next caller is Kate from Virginia.
Bryan Baron: Hello, Kate.
Desiree Stordahl: Kate, you there?
00:49:12 Okay we will move on to Marcia from Maryland.
Bryan Barron: Miss Marsha, how are you tonight?
Marcia: I'm great, how are you doing?
Bryan Barron: We are doing good. Do you have a question for Deborah?
Marcia: Yes, my question kind of follows up on what you just discussed. I am excited by the list. I do pretty well with those foods. I'm about two weeks into cutting back my sugar consumption.
00:49:35 Over the last couple of years I found I was sneaking more sodas and making trips passed the M&M jar in the kitchen, just a handful at a time, but that adds up. So, I found it has been very hard but I am making progress. But what I wonder is as I am trying to teach my body not to crave the sugars, is it okay to continue to consume the fruits – the blueberries, and things like that?
00:50:04 Or do I need to stay away from that until I kind of get away from the sugar addiction?
Deborah Enos: Great question. So can you give me an idea, when you say sugar addiction, how many packets – and a packet is a teaspoon – how many packets do you think you might have been eating a day during the height of this challenge?
Marcia: Well, I can't guess, but I would probably be – I never was one to drink diet sodas, so I would say in a day or in a week I might be drinking four or five regular sodas.
00:50:38 And I can't say per day, two or three handfuls of like M&Ms or something. I can't guess. I probably don't want to know how many.
Bryan Barron: It's probably best that we don't know the real number.
Deborah Enos: Okay, gosh, you could go both ways. You know, I have clients where sometimes we just have to say, okay cold turkey, literally no sugar at all. And that does go for fruit sugar.
00:51:08 But I really don't like doing that. The way I look at it is if God made it, you can eat it. He didn't make a Snickers bar, but he made blueberries. And so, to me, that is a really great natural way of helping you get through this addiction time without stuffing yourself full of sugar or high fructose corn syrup.
00:51:30 So what I would say is I want you to go ahead and continue to eat fruit. But, when it comes to fruit, you actually should be eating more vegetables than you are fruit for specifically this reason because it can get a little addicting. And I had a client one time where she was eating eight fruits a day and one vegetable. It really should be the opposite of that. And, still, eight is a lot. I mean not very many people do that.
00:51:58 So, let's just call it five a day. And that is fairly easy for most people to do. But when you break it down, that is three veggies and two fruits a day. And I think what I would do with you if you were my client is I would pick the sweetest juiciest fruit and I would have you eat it during the time when you would normally be feeding this addiction with real sugar. So I am guessing that is probably mid-afternoon for you?
Marcia: Three o'clock and about three o'clock at night.
Deborah Enos: Okay.
00:52:30 So what I would do at three o'clock is get just really yummy, wonderful, organic blueberries where maybe you pay five bucks a container. Like you literally can't wait to get into them. And try to build some anticipation where you are actually excited about it. And put it in a nice bowl and be sitting down. Don't be eating the blueberries by the handfuls in front of the boob tube. Just really do it up right and sit down, have a cup of tea.
00:53:02 You might even put a bit of Stevia in your tea to make that a little bit sweet. And, honestly Marcia, you could do this for the rest of your life and it is totally fine. So I am not giving you something that I would say to you six months from now, "Okay Marcia, no more fruit." I'm giving you advice that is a lifetime. That you could do for a lifetime.
Marcia: Oh, that's great.
Deborah Enos: And in winter I would switch to tangerines, those little Clementines, those are really sweet.
00:53:31 And, you know, I'm not perfect, even though I am a nutritionist. Maybe people think I should be. But I grew up on Pop Tarts. And so I have a terrible sweet tooth that I have been battling my whole life. And so this winter I would do Clementines, like maybe two or three Clementines after dinner, and that would really kill my sweet tooth.
Marcia: Okay. Does it take then – is this a lifelong battle or can you kind of beat the intense craving and make it something where you can say, you know, I'm choosing Clementines over ice cream and I am happy with it.
00:54:06 How long does it take to get to that point?
Deborah Enos: You know, for me it probably took about four weeks of really being diligent about it. And, honestly, by the time February rolled around I was salivating at the thought of having my Clementine's. So I was like Pavlov's dog. I mean you can train yourself. Like maybe I got trained as a kid to love Pop Tarts and cinnamon rolls.
00:54:33 I can also train myself away from that with a good healthy replacement. And that is basically what I have done. And one of the ways that I know I have been successful is that I can have my Clementine's and then the trick is I go brush my teeth. And then maybe the kids might get out cookies, or our youngest daughter, she likes to make cookies, and normally I would be over there dipping my hand in the bowl, getting the dough, and it doesn't even interest me anymore because I have had my sweet treat, I have brushed my teeth and I am good.
00:55:07 And so if I can do it, honestly, you can do it. And I was a sugar-hound. I mean I loved it, I would eat it all day long.
Marcia: Okay, so I just hang in there. I'm about halfway through.
Deborah Enos: Hang in there. And also make sure you are very hydrated. Do you drink enough water during the day?
Marcia: No. I have tried. In the last two weeks since I have done this I have tried and I will sneak some tea into my water or some pomegranate juice and I am trying to train my taste buds to –
00:55:38 if I have a drink and it is not just water, that it is something that is not a sweet drink with it. But, no, I don't think I drink enough water.
Deborah Enos: Yeah, and that is the other thing is that when you are dehydrated and tired, it is a terrible combination. And it will really drive sugar cravings. So, if you are tired, maybe didn't sleep well or something, those days you need to especially make sure you stay really hydrated.
00:56:06 Eight 8oz glasses of water is kind of the gold standard we tell everybody. But the key is look in the toilet. If your pee is basically clear then you are hydrated. If the pee looks a little orange, which it will first thing in the morning, or after you take a handful of vitamins it will look a little orangey, that's okay.
00:56:29 But if it looks orangey at 10 o'clock in the morning and then you say, "Oh my gosh, I haven't had any water today; I've just been drinking coffee," you know you are dehydrated.
Marcia: Great, I never realized that that could make you tired. But it makes sense.
Deborah Enos: Yes, and then when you get tired your body say, "Oh, gosh, I really want a donut. That would make me feel so much better."
Bryan Barron: And it's energy and it's breaking down that collagen. Oh!
Deborah Enos: Yeah, it's a vicious cycle.
Desiree Stordahl: Marcia, we will be sending you a copy of Deborah's book. And we are going to try to get one more caller in really, really quick, just a couple of minutes left. It's Cherie from California.
Bryan Barron: Hello Cherie, how can we help you today?
Cherie: Hi.
00:57:13 Oh my God! I just identified with Marcia so bad. That was great. But, you know, I was a sugar person, too, so I know you said that really breaks down the collagen. I'm worried about how do I build that up. You did mention one food that would be good, but I really wanted to focus on that. Are there some other things that I can do to build up the collagen, counteract all of the sugar days that I have had?
00:57:43 Because I am kind of Marcia's voice. Tell her I am with her.
Deborah Enos: Yes, so a couple of things. To build up the collagen, part of it is just going to be time. It is going to be preventing future sun damage. Do you use a good sunscreen?
Cherie: I'm a sunscreen hag, sun-protective clothing person. So that I am really good about.
Deborah Enos: That's good. And I love Paula's Mineral Sunscreen.
00:58:06 Even kayaking it still stays on my body which is amazing.
Bryan Barron: It won't come off. It's very long-wearing.
Deborah Enos: I know! I had to even rub it off in the shower.
Cherie: It's a day-to-day. The Day-to-Day 15, the Mattifying one. Oh my God, that to me is like a primer for my face for makeup.
Deborah Enos: It makes a huge difference. So, you have already got that covered which is great.
00:58:31 So what's going to help collagen kind of repair itself is making sure that you avoid toxins. And what I mean by that is if you have somebody in your life who smokes, you need to avoid them for a little while if you can. You need to make sure you are getting enough sleep. And the average person needs between 7.5 and 8.5 hours. The other thing I would suggest – do you do any yoga?
Cherie: I started doing yoga which I really love.
Deborah Enos: Okay.
00:59:02 Here's the thing with your skin, your skin really loves oxygen. And the more oxygen it gets, the healthier it is going to be. So that means, when we talk about oxygen, I am saying blood flow. And if you think about some of those positions you are in in yoga, like a downward dog, or you are trying to touch your toes, you are really giving a good boost of oxygen to your skin. So you are really giving a good blood supply.
00:59:30 You don't want to stay down there for five minutes because you are going to pass out. But maybe just taking a yoga class or getting a copy of videos which is what I do could, I think, really make a big difference. And then I would also suggest the Omegas. I think the Omegas will probably make the biggest difference with your skin and be helpful with collagen production. So that is going to be wild Alaskan salmon, walnuts, almonds, and green leafy vegetables.
01:00:01 That's what I would really focus – if I could just say these are the four foods I would pick for you, that would be it.
Bryan Barron: And you can mix them all up and have a great, big tasty salad with an olive oil based vinaigrette and you would be sitting pretty.
Deborah Enos: You would.
Bryan Barron: Quite literally.
Deborah Enos: That would be perfect, yes.
Bryan Barron: Well, Cherie, since you a Paula's Choice fan we are going to go ahead and send you our new Resist Anti-Aging Clear Skin Hydrator. So you can try that. Let us know what you think. You are going to get to try it before anyone else.
01:00:32 And thank you for calling. And we need to wrap up. This hour with Deborah Enos always goes by so fast. There are always more questions. We need to eat to live and there are always more questions about food and what it can and can't do for us and all the issues we have with it and not. So, Deborah, I would love to have you on the show again sometime in the future down the road because you are just a fountain of information.
Deborah Enos: Well thanks.
01:00:58 It's always fun hanging out with you guys.
Bryan Barron: So we will be in touch.
Deborah Enos: Sounds good. I will be here. And you have great callers, great questions. And love the show. And love the products.
Bryan Barron: Thank you, Deborah. And again, for our listeners, the website is DeborahEnos.com. You can go there, sign up for her email newsletter to get your weekly nutrition tips or buy her book. And let's talk about some of the upcoming shows we've got.
01:01:31 Next week we are actually doing a rerun but it is a rerun of one of our most popular shows, so if you missed it be sure to catch "Five ways to shrink pores and get rid of blackheads." On June 30, this is going to be a really fun show; I know Paula is excited about it and she will be back. "Five skincare products to treat aging." We are going to tell what to buy, what to avoid, and you will start having better skin.
01:01:56 "Secrets to finding the perfect foundation," is what we have going on for July 7. We are going to talk about the different types of foundations, what skin types they are best for, which ones you should look for if you need more coverage or if you want less coverage, sunscreen or no. Foundation 101 essentially is what is going on July 7. And then on July 14 we have dermatologist Dr. Leslie Baumann back on the show and she and Paula are going to be discussing the latest techniques that you can use to look younger without surgery.
01:02:28 So all of those shows are don't miss. Hope you will stay with us this summer. Thank you for listening. Come visit us at PaulasChoice.com. You can listen to archived versions of the shows. We do have transcripts available. They are typically about two weeks or so behind the live broadcast. But, again, thank you for joining us. And we will talk with you next week. Good night.
Desiree Stordahl: Good night.
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