Eat More & Exercise Less to Lose Weight with Jonathan Bailor

Airdate: 9/25/12

Desiree Stordahl: Hello and thank you for tuning in to Be Beautifully Informed with the Paula's Choice Research Team. This is Desiree Stordahl. And my normal co-hosts, Paula and Bryan, are both out and away today, so they can't join us. But I have the pleasure of introducing Cynthia Short who is our director of e-commerce here at Paula's Choice, and also happens to be one of the most fit and athletic women I know. Hello Cynthia.
Cynthia Short: Hello Desiree.
00:00:30 How are you?
Desiree Stordahl: Good. You are the perfect person to be joining us on this episode, all about eating more and exercising less to lose weight with our special guest Jonathan Bailor. And also on the line we have Kate Mee who is our Product Development Director. And I'm sure Kate there are some people on the line hoping you're going to spill some beans about some of the exciting products we have coming up.
Kate Mee: Hi Desiree. I might do that.
Desiree Stordahl: Hello, hello. Okay. All right, we'll make people hang on and listen till the end.
Kate Mee: Sounds good.
Desiree Stordahl: So, tonight's show, as I mentioned, is all about health and nutrition and fitness.
00:01:05 And boy do we have the perfect man for that. We really love Jonathan Bailor's theories and the way he uses research and science to back everything up that he says. And that's kind of exactly how we do things here on the Paula's Choice Research Team. So, we thought he's a perfect fit to talk about nutrition and fitness because he does for that industry what we do for the cosmetics industry.
00:01:30 So, I'm going to give you some more information about Jonathon and we'll get to his topic in a minute, but before we go to Jonathan I have a drugstore double that I cannot wait to tell you guys about. I've been preparing for TV show I'm going to do in the Seattle area tomorrow. It's called New Day Northwest. And it's all about Drugstore Doubles – inexpensive products that rival the department store brands.
00:01:56 And I found a product that is such an identical match it's going to blow your minds. So, it is L'Oreal's Infallible 24-hour Eye Shadow, and that's an $8 product. It's a beautiful cream-to-powder eye shadow. It has a silky smooth texture. It's got a beautiful shimmer to it. It would be beautiful for a holiday party or for night time wear, or if you like shimmer any time of the day. But put that up against Lancôme's Color Design Infinite 24 Hours. And notice how they're both making the 24 hour claim. No eye shadow is really going to last 24 hours, nor do you want it to.
00:02:31 But, these are both beautiful eye shadows and the Lancôme version is $25. So, for the L'Oreal version you're paying about a third of the price, getting the same exact product. I mean, it looks identical. Even the packaging was the same exact, right Cynthia?
Cynthia Short: Yes, it was great.
Desiree Stordahl: It was pretty shocking. So, if you're going to go out and get that product, look for the less expensive version. And just a tidbit of information – L'Oreal owns Lancôme, so it's no surprise that they would share their best cosmetic formulas.
00:03:03 All right. So, now that we've got that juicy bit of drugstore double information out of the way I want to introduce Jonathan. Jonathan Bailor, he is the author of the Smarter Science of Slim which focuses on the quality of food and exercise by eating more and exercising less but smarter. His book has been endorsed by top doctors at Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins, and UCLA, and is approved as curriculum for registered dieticians by the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.
00:03:34 You can also visit his website, And you can find his podcast on iTunes by searching for The Smarter Science of Slim. So, Jonathan, are you there?
Jonathan Bailor: I am here.
Desiree Stordahl: Welcome! We're so happy to have you on.
Jonathan Bailor: It's a pleasure to be on, ladies. Thank you for having me.
Desiree Stordahl: We have some really great questions for you – but before we dive into all of the specifics can you k give our listeners just a touch base on your theory. You know, eating more and exercising less, that sounds too good to be true; give us the gist of how that works.
Jonathan Bailor: Sure.
00:04:12 Well, the first thing I'd like to start with if possible is you used the word theory three times, and one thing to clarify is that the one thing that we try to do over at The Smarter Science of Slim to make it different from a lot of what we hear about health and fitness is it's all based on research. So, it is much less theory and much more here's, you know, five or six studies that demonstrate that this is true.
00:04:37 So, anything that I do not have a study to back up I will make sure that I clarify that. But, speaking to the exercise less and eat more but smarter bit, the good news is there is mountains of research to support this seemingly counterintuitive conclusion. And let me quickly clarify it to make sure it's not too counterintuitive. So, when I say eat more, we talk about the research showing that when we eat more of certain types of foods, this makes it impossible for us to overeat because these foods are very satisfying.
00:05:09 It also creates a much different hormonal environment in our body that enables us to burn fat. And it simultaneously provides us with an abundance of nutrition. So, it's not eating more of the same types of foods that cause us to gain fat in the first place, it's eating more of things like non-starchy vegetables and nutrient dense proteins, and whole food natural fats – basically the foods we ate prior to the obesity and diabetes epidemic as common sense would have it is the effective way to avoid obesity and diabetes.
00:05:40 So, it's eat more but of essentially scientifically proven to be healthy foods. And when I say exercise less but smarter, I definitely don't mean to imply that we should all sit around on the couch all day. The key is the smarter bit. So, the idea here and the science here is that the quality of exercise is inversely related to the quantity of it that we can do.
00:06:04 For example, we can't sprint as long as we can walk. So, if you go out sprinting – I'm not saying you should do this, you probably shouldn't, it's very risky – but you can't do that as long as you'd walk. You're not being lazy, it's just more intense so you can't do as much of it. But what research is showing very clearly now is the higher the intensity or the more muscle fibers we use when we exercise, that triggers a hormonal change in our body that is really key for long-term fat loss.
00:06:32 The research is showing that it's not about burning calories. It's about hormonal change. And the only way to make that hormonal change is by doing more intense exercise. And because the exercise is more intense we have to do less of it, again, not because we're lazy, just because we can't sprint for as long as we can walk. So, we eat more but we do it smarter; we exercise less and we do it smarter. We flood our body with nutrition. We easily avoid overeating. We create a dramatically different hormonal environment. And what we end up doing is actually making our bodies work more like the bodies of naturally thing people.
00:07:07 Or like they did when we were younger, because again we're changing our hormones rather than fighting against our body.
Cynthia Short: So, can you explain what hormones you're talking about?
Jonathan Bailor: Yes. I mean, there are many, many that are involved. I mean, for women, as women age their levels of estrogen fall. Insulin sensitivity tends to decrease. Leptin sensitivity tends to decrease.
00:07:31 With men our testosterone levels fall. So, when we eat smarter and exercise less but smarter we tend to restore those hormone levels to more of our adolescent states and we tend to become more sensitive to hormones which regulate energy balance within our body so that we don't overeat and so that we don't under-burn calories.
Desiree Stordahl: You know, I've seen this even within my own family how my mom and my dad can go on the same diet but my mom won't lose any weight and my dad will.
00:08:07 So, I understand that definitely hormones can come into play with that. And, also, what's your take on when a woman hits menopause? What happens with the hormones then? How is that affecting the diet? What can they be doing to help overcome that?
Jonathan Bailor: The key thing – menopause is a great – great in quotations – but it's a great inflection point to prove this situation here.
00:08:32 When a woman hits menopause it's not like she all of a sudden starts eating more and exercising less. But according to traditional theory women who hit menopause might be like, oh my gosh, I just have to eat less for the rest of my life and now I have to exercise more. Well, that's silly; what's happened is --
Desiree Stordahl: And depressing.
Jonathan Bailor: Yeah, they haven't gotten lazy. And they haven't become gluttons. What's happened is their hormones have changed. And the answer is to do all that we can to restore our hormone levels to a state that enables us to stay slim naturally.
00:09:07 Because that is the natural state for any mammal, right? Mammals in nature are not obese. That is not good from an evolutionary perspective. It's not good from a survival perspective. And it's not good from a health perspective. But we have been told, actually for the past 40 years, not forever, just for the past 40 years that it's all about calories, and that we're just eating too many calories and that we're burning off too few calories.
00:09:30 And while it is statistically true that we're consuming more calories today than we did in the past, if you look at the actual number of calories we're consuming today versus say the 1970s, we're consuming about 600 additional calories per person per day. And if you do some math that means we should have each gained about 1,000 pounds since the ‘70s. Obviously we haven't. Calorie math doesn't work that way. Our body doesn't work that way. It tends to keep us at an even keel; as long as we keep our body at an even keel it's always trying to balance us out.
00:10:03 That's why it's so hard to lose weight because our body is trying to balance us out, albeit at this higher weight. So, when a woman hits menopause she's essentially experienced a change in her hormonal balance. This changes what's called her set point weight. And while she may not be able to restore her hormone levels to those of which when she was 16, she can certainly improve them. And the irony is that the way she improves them is not by starving herself.
00:10:32 In fact, that will make them worse. And it's not by chronically doing cardio. Again, that will potentially cause adrenal fatigue and it will cause it to become worse. What she needs to do is flood her body with so much nutritious food and food that creates a positive hormonal environment while simultaneously doing a little but more intense and safe exercise such as resistance training, rather than "cardio."
Cynthia Short: So, I take it this means pizza and cake are really not on the menu anymore?
Jonathan Bailor: Exactly. Well it's not about being perfect, but the paradigm I like to take on is imagine always being too full for dessert.
00:11:14 Maybe not always, but certainly hunger is not sustainable. So, the thing I love about eating more smarter is it's infinitely more sustainable than being hungry. We can't eat anything we want all the time. I mean, it is a trade off. We're going to focus on eating just a dramatic amount of non-starchy vegetables, so these are the things you see in salads, things you generally eat raw.
00:11:37 So, green leafy vegetables, carrots, cucumbers, squashes, mushrooms. We're all kind of familiar with these things. Just not starchy vegetables – not corn, not potatoes. Nutrient dense proteins, so any kind of seafood. Nutrient cuts of beef such as organic grass-fed beef or lean conventional beef. Poultry. Eggs. Greek yogurt. Cottage cheese. And whole food natural fats such as nuts and seeds.
00:12:01 And if we can just do our best to stay so full of those things, like fill your plate with 50% non-starchy vegetables. Have a double serving of a high protein main dish, and fill yourself up at that point with whole food natural fats, just so you're too full for a starchy side or a sweet dessert. It's not going to be no effort, but it's a lot less effort than trying to eat 1,200 calories for the rest of your life.
Desiree Stordahl: Jonathan, do you have a section on your website that gives recipes, ideas for people so they don't tired of these certain types of foods?
Jonathan Bailor: Absolutely. There is an entire e-book called Seven Days of Sanity. That outlines an entire week of what I call sane recipes, or the characteristics we use to define high quality foods we can talk about say if you like.
00:12:54 As well as there is an entire community on our website where readers share recipes every day. So, there are hundreds and hundreds of reader-submitted recipes. And the key thing to keep in mind is that there's no shortage of dishes made with these types of foods. Really we're talking about just trying to steer away from starches and sweets. And, I mean, aside from things that require pasta, things that require bread, things that require rice, usually they don't require those things.
00:13:24 Like you could eat them without it. Or you could use a vegetable as a substitute like using zucchini to make a noodle substitute, or using a kelp noodle, or using a cauliflower rice, for example, or even a low carbohydrate bread. There are all kinds of substitutes.
Desiree Stordahl: And, again, that's on your website, correct?
Jonathan Bailor: That is correct.
Desiree Stordahl: All right. I wanted to back up for a second. When you were talking about why a calorie isn't just a calorie, and I read your book and this was probably the most fascinating part to me when you broke down how much more calories you burn when it's a protein calorie.
00:14:05 So, could you kind of go over that for our listeners and the different types of calories?
Jonathan Bailor: Sure. So there are four factors that determine the quality of a calorie, and fundamentally when I say eat more I mean eat more high quality calories. But then the question is what are high quality calories? Well, the research shows there are four factors, and the one you mentioned is the fourth, so I'll describe all four real quick. The first is satiety – meaning how many calories does it take to fill us up and how long do those calories keep us full.
00:14:34 That's the S in SANE. We want to eat high satiety calories. The A stands for Aggression. And this has to do with the amount of insulin and blood sugar and how quickly those things happen after we eat a food. We're all pretty familiar with this. It has to do with glycemic index or glycemic load. For example diabetics can't eat aggressive calories due to the impact on insulin and blood sugar. So, that's the A.
00:14:58 The N is Nutrition. This is one we're pretty familiar with but the distinction we make in our research is nutrition per calorie. And that's really key because if we look at, for example, the serving size of let's say whole wheat flour, it might say you get 10% niacin. But that comes along with 300 calories. Whereas if you look at a non-starchy vegetable you get 10% niacin in three calories. Clearly the non-starchy vegetable is better because it gives you more nutrition per calorie. So, that's the N. And then finally the E. This is the one you referred to which is also my favorite because it's the least well-known and potentially one of the more exciting ones. And this has to do with efficiency, meaning how easy it is for our body to convert a food into body fat.
00:15:42 I mean, we don't have little bits of sandwich floating around in our bloodstream. Our body has to go through a series of chemical changes to turn food into energy. And most of us burn about 10% of the calories we burn every day simply metabolizing food. Now things like protein are actually much more difficult for our body to synthesize.
00:16:06 So, while a carbohydrate may take anywhere from 5% to 10% of the energy we consume to digest, protein takes upwards of 30%. And that only continues as we follow that process throughout our metabolism so at the end of the day the road from chicken breast to love handles actually ends up burning about two-thirds of those protein calories just through the chemical processes involved, so they're very inefficient calories.
Desiree Stordahl: That blows my mind.
Jonathan Bailor: I know! And that kind of shows how you can eat more but actually be storing less, for example. Because 300 calories of protein are simply not metabolized the same as 300 calories of starch, for example.
Cynthia Short: But you also talk in your book about fats and how it's really okay to eat fats, as well.
Jonathan Bailor: Yes. So the key about Sanity, so we want to look at all four factors.
00:17:02 So if we look at any one factor individually, that's not going to give us a complete picture. We want to look at all four. And the good news is that all four of them have three things in common – water, fiber, and protein. So, when we eat foods that are rich in water, fiber, and protein we're generally eating sane foods. And when we eat dry, low fiber, low protein foods such as starches and sweets, those are going to be insane.
00:17:28 Now your questions specifically about fats, right, this is an area we hear all about where you think if you eat fat you're going to become fat. The challenge – so there's certainly that can be true. If you were to just drink olive oil, like that's probably not a good idea. However, if you enjoy the naturally occurring fats found in whole foods that also are very satisfying and are also very unaggressive. And are also very nutritious. Well, then the high efficiency of fat kind of doesn't matter because we're going to get all that other good stuff along with it. So, things like again nutrient-dense meats, whole eggs, nuts and seeds, things like that they fit perfectly into a sane lifestyle.
Desiree Stordahl: So, for someone like me who is not good about getting enough protein in general, which I need to work on that first and foremost, but I have been trying all different kinds of protein powders and I just can't find one I like.
00:18:26 Do you have specific ones that you recommend?
Jonathan Bailor: In terms of taste I far and away – to be clear, this is not the most affordable protein powder. I will quickly disclaim that. But there is a company called Beverly International; they don't advertise in magazines. They're kind of the under-the-radar only – they're marketed at natural body builders because they're really top of the line stuff. It's called Ultimate Muscle Protein, and the reason I really like it is most protein supplements you're going to see on the market are whey protein. Why is a milk derivative and it's a fantastic source of protein just to be very clear.
00:19:04 But it's very quick digesting. And that's not a bad thing. But if we just want something to sustain us, we want something that digests a little bit slower. This Ultimate Muscle Protein is predominately Casein which is another milk protein, much slower digesting. But here's the key thing – I use this protein powder to bake with. And it is just fabulous. I have never seen anything work like this.
00:19:26 For example, I take some eggs or egg whites. I mix it with some Ultimate Muscle Protein, their chocolate variant. I add some Non-Dutch Cocoa, which is one of the most SANE foods in the world. I may even add some natural peanut butter and I bake that up into like pancakes and brownies and muffins.
Desiree Stordahl: Yum.
Jonathan Bailor: It's just fabulous. I use the stuff in place of flour and it is just delicious. So, that's another good example of a SANE substitute. So, I would recommend trying Ultimate Muscle Protein. There's actually a SANE store on and it's listed there and it's one of the internet's best prices, so it's an affiliate.
00:20:05 I don't sell it personally but I think I link to Amazon.
Desiree Stordahl: Okay, great. And then what are some tips for people going out to eat. How can they keep their diet in check while they're dining outside of their own kitchen?
Jonathan Bailor: So the key thing, two things I would say. One, please don't fear food. Like, let me quickly say something which might sound a little bit silly. It is absolutely possible for people to eat whenever they are hungry until they are no longer hungry and stay slim.
00:20:41 And the reason I say that is because that's what we did for the entirety of human existence up until about 40 years ago when dieting became mainstream. And if you look at the obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer rates, they've always been lower than they are today. So, the issue is not eating food. Eating the right kinds of food is the healthiest thing we can do for our body.
00:21:03 The issue is eating the wrong kinds of foods. So, when we go out to eat we don't want to avoid food. Don't force yourself to only eat a salad, for example. Simply when you go out to eat tell your server hold the starch, double the vegetables. Right then you've unlocked about 80% of the dishes at any restaurant. Or, if you go to an Asian restaurant, which people are like well how do you do this at Asian restaurants, it's all about rice – well, instead of what I even used to do, prior to the Smarter Science of Slim is I'd go to an Asian restaurant, I'd eat half of my main dish, and a bunch of rice, and I'd take the rest of my main dish home.
00:21:38 Now I just eat my entire main dish without the rice. And I'm completely full. And I'm completely satisfied and that's really what makes the meal delicious. I'm not like, oh my god, that Chinese restaurant had such good rice! I'm usually like, oh my gosh, this Chinese restaurant had such good Kung Pao Chicken, and I don't care that it has nuts in it because nuts, again, that's a healthy fat, it's good for us. And I just enjoy the entire main dish.
00:22:00 So, again, imagine always just hold the starch, double the non-starchy vegetables. And if you're eating at home, double a protein-rich main dish. Triple serving of non-starchy vegetables. And "full" yourself – instead of fool yourself, making a corny joke – into eating a SANE, or maintaining a SANE lifestyle.
Cynthia Short: Jonathan, I can't tell you the number of people I've told about your book. And pretty much they all say the same thing to me. It's like, "Great information, I love it, but I'm not exactly sure how to apply it in everyday life." Is there a simple how-to guide that you can direct people to?
Jonathan Bailor: Yeah. There's a bunch of additional practical how-to resources on the website. So, actually we're currently working on the second edition of the book which will likely be released, actually not for some time, 2014. But, it's going to include a lot more how-to stuff.
00:22:58 But in terms of just, maybe it would be helpful to kind of step through some example breakfast, lunches, and dinners. Would that be useful?
Cynthia Short: That would be good.
Jonathan Bailor: So for breakfast, I like to do one of three things. First option has to do with eggs. So, any kind of an egg scramble with a bunch of non-starchy vegetables, kind of option one. So, eggs with meat and with vegetables, that's option one.
00:23:23 Option two would be a Greek yogurt or a cottage cheese with potentially some low sugar fruits, like some berries maybe. So that's option number two. Option number three is some sort of a smoothie. So, you could do a whey protein powder with maybe some low sugar fruits, and I know this might sound a little bit weird, but also some non-starchy vegetables. You would be surprised at how well fruit and certain non-starchy vegetables such as spinach, like if you were to take oranges and spinach or strawberries and spinach and some vanilla whey protein powder, it's actually quite scrumptious. You'd be surprised. The spinach just kind of blends away.
Cynthia Short: Okay. I'll have to try that before I believe that!
Jonathan Bailor: You can check the SmarterScienceofSlim website, like I said, the community.
00:24:08 There are a bunch of people who are speaking about their everyday experiences, and you will be surprised how many people you will see, like, "I tried this nice smoothie today and I didn't really taste the spinach. It's kind of a surprising!" So, give that a whirl. That's breakfast. Lunch, if you can do a big salad topped with either some sort of meat or some sort of fish, that's a great option. A sandwich just without the bread is fine, so put it in between two leafs of romaine lettuce.
00:24:38 You can do things like, again, anything except starch and sweets. So, a stir-fry without the bed of rice. Chicken. I mean, really the options are endless. Just don't eat starches and sweets. And then when it comes to dinner it is fundamentally, I mean, it's hard to think of something that's just completely off-limits because we have SANE substitutions for everything. I mean, you can even have pizza. You just use almost flour in the crust instead of wheat flour.
00:25:06 You could have spaghetti if you want. Just use spaghetti squash instead of the noodles. You could have cake, like I just said, except you would use a Casein based protein powder instead of flour. You could have meat and vegetables, or fish and vegetables. I mean, it's really the sky is the limit. Just we have got to find, and we have available to you on the website SANE substitutions for starches. And sweets are kind of easy, too, because we live in a world fortunately where we now have non-caloric natural sweeteners, so things like Stevia, which is not artificial. It's not going to cause you to have brain cancer or whatever the aspartame, these things may cause.
00:25:45 But it's still going to allow you to enjoy sweet foods, so thanks to some technological innovations and just some brilliant SANE substitutions that readers have come up with, really the sky is the limit. We just have to be SANE about it.
Cynthia Short: So, can I still have a glass of wine with my dinner?
Jonathan Bailor: You can. Again, it's not about perfection. You know, if you're goal was to be in a female figure competition on stage, I'd say, you know, six weeks out stop drinking wine. But if that's not your goal, you don't have to worry about it.
Desiree Stordahl: Well, Cynthia is pretty close to it already.
Jonathan Bailor: But that's a key point, ladies, is that we tend as a culture to get so hung up on little things. Like eat this, not that, what about this, what about that?
00:26:34 For example, if for 21 days you can eat so much non-starchy vegetables, nutrient dense protein, and whole food natural fat that you are too full for starches and sweets, you will see more health and physical benefit than you would if you worried about these million other little things that don't do anything other than sell magazines. Like, it's surprisingly simple, we just have to do it.
Desiree Stordahl: So, Jonathan, how do you feel about caffeine, and if people don't like coffee what's a good alternative to coffee besides green tea, because I always hear that one and I don't really like it.
Jonathan Bailor: Sure.
00:27:13 So green tea is highly recommended in research circles because of its high concentration of antioxidants or polyphenols. And you could also, so green or white tea – if you don't like green tea, you may like white tea. It's a little bit more expensive. Again, you don't have to drink green tea. It has been shown to assist in fat-burning efforts as well as being spectacular for health, but an individual who is overweight is not overweight because they have a green tea deficiency.
00:27:42 It's just something that will help. So, if you like caffeine, green tea is great way to get it. White tea is a reasonable way to get it. Coffee is fine. Just don't add a bunch of sugar and cream to your coffee and you're okay. So, again, caffeine, under 300 mg per day has been shown to have really no detrimental effects to either health or fitness.
00:28:02 You go above that it can get a little bit dicey, but caffeine can absolutely be part of a SANE lifestyle.
Cynthia Short: So, you haven't talked about exercise yet, except that we can do less. Now, you look like a body builder. I've seen your picture on your book and on your website. And you talk about only doing ten minutes of exercise per week. Can we look like you – or can guys look like you for only ten minutes a week?
Jonathan Bailor: Yeah, so I exercise – well, let me tell you a little story here of mine. So, prior to the Smarter Science of Slim, what led me to do all this research was I was a personal trainer. And the challenge that I had was I did everything that I was taught as a trainer with my clients, essentially telling them to eat 1,200 calories a day, 1,200 to 1,600 calories a day while spending one to two hours a day exercising.
00:28:57 And while I was there to force them to do that inhumane task, because frankly I'm starving them from every angle possible which is not – in other time periods starvation was thought of as a bad thing, not a good thing. But don't get me started on that! So, as long as I forced them to starve themselves they would achieve some level of success, but then inevitably our time together would end and they would gain all of the weight back and then some, and they would be worse off from both a physical and a health perspective, as well as a mental perspective because now they feel like failures. They worked with a personal trainer, they invested all this time and money, and now they're worse off than when they started.
00:29:35 And that broke their heart. It broke my heart, because I failed them, right? It was my job to help them and they ended up worse off. So, I had to find a more practical and permanent solution for people because I don't want to hurt people which is frankly what I was doing. That's why I went and did this research. And the reason I mentioned this was because at that time I was also obsessed with diet and exercise. And I practiced the tradition wisdom.
00:30:01 I exercised for upwards of 20 hours a week, often times twice a day. I was one of the kinds of people who you go on vacation and I'd be like, "Where's the gym? Like I don't care where we're at, where's the gym? I have to figure out when I'm going to exercise." And I carried around little food containers to make sure I got my six meals a day with approximately this many calories. Super, super rigid about it at that time, this was ten years ago.
00:30:28 Ten years ago I was 6 feet tall, weighed about 200 pounds and had a 34-inch waist. So, got good results, let's be clear here. That was good results. However, it cost me my life. And I got injured a lot. And I didn't have any friends because I spent all my time in the gym. Today, so part of the reason I was able to write this book was all the time I got back. Today I exercise, or currently I exercise one day a week, on Saturdays, doing the eccentric training described in the book. And I just follow the SANE lifestyle in terms of diet.
00:31:01 And to be clear, I'm not exercising that way because I'm lazy. I'm exercising that way because if I tried to do it again on Wednesday I physically would not be able to. Because it takes at least six days for a body to recover from this kind of training. And I can describe why in a moment. But the reason I mentioned this is I talked about my stats – 200lbs, 6' tall, 34" waist. That was ten years ago.
00:31:25 Fast forward ten years into the future. So, I'm a man, my testosterone levels have fallen, according to all common knowledge I should be heavier or at least I should – if I'm not heavier that means I'm exercising more and I'm cutting calories, right? Well, I'm not. I'm still 6' tall. I haven't shrunk. I still weigh 200 lbs, so I haven't eaten away at my muscle tissue, but I have 31.5" waist. And it's still hard for me to believe how that's possible. And I know all the research that proves it's possible. It's shocking, but the research, and the biology, and the endocrinology that underlie it really aren't controversial at all.
00:32:03 They just haven't been exposed to us in the public because, frankly, when I was a trainer if I told my clients all you have to do is these four exercises in this certain modality, which is very challenging, but if you just do it once a week you're good, I would have been out of business pretty quickly. You know, when you think about it --
Cynthia Short: I know you would have had to write books for a bit.
Jonathan Bailor: So, absolutely, and let me quickly maybe make sense of this. What do you mean, exercise one day a week? Well, let me use an analogy. Let's say you have a really stressful day at work, like just super, super stressful. When that happens, like you can't have that happen every day. You physically can't or you will get sick. The body can only undergo so much stress.
00:32:52 It doesn't mean you're lazy, it just means if you undergo a huge amount of stress it takes more time to recover than if your body undergoes a little bit of stress. When we talk about exercising less but smarter, what I recommend is a specific form of training known as eccentric training which allows us to incredibly safely work our muscles, or stress our muscles in a positive way, really to a level that many of us have never experienced in our lives.
00:33:23 We'll actually be activating a type of muscle fiber, like an entire component of our musculature that we have never worked before because it only ever gets activated when we use maximum amounts of resistance. And to be clear, we're not going to be power lifting. We're not going to be doing these kind of crazy explosive Olympic lifts. We're actually going to moving very slowly. It actually looks most like Yoga or Pilates.
00:33:50 Just think about it like Yoga and Pilates with a lot of resistance. And because you do this you will wake up the next day, and forget about exercising, you're going to be like how am I going to walk down the stairs? You'll eventually get down the stairs. You might have to scoot down on your butt. I like to tell people that you know you're exercising less but smarter. When you stop questioning how can this possibly work once a week and you start questioning how you're going to move around for the rest of the week because, let alone exercise, because when you're doing it correctly you are sore for an entire week.
00:34:26 So, it's really not a too good to be true kind of thing. It's just, again, like we said, in ten seconds you can break a sweat sprinting, whereas if you walk you may never break a sweat. It's not like, "Oh sprinting; that's a too good to be true gimmick." It's just that the more intense the exercise, the more intense the result on your body, the shorter time you need, and the more recovery you need.
Cynthia Short: So, is that kind of exercise safe for the typical couch potato type?
Jonathan Bailor: Ironically it is, because the specific – the things that generally cause people to get injured when they exercise are, one, moving fast. So, when you think about, people get injured playing sports. It's usually like they're sprinting, or they're running, or they're cutting, or they're changing directions. That's very dangerous. The thing that we can do when we train eccentrically, and I describe a way to do this at home, is what we essentially do is we're able to spot ourselves.
00:35:24 Which means we're able to completely control the amount of resistance we need to use so that it's never too much for us to handle. And at the same time we move extremely slowly, and we never change directions. Let me kind of make sense of that. So, you can imagine if I told you ladies to stand up right now and just stand up and then squat down as fast as you can, and then bounce back up. Like that's just intuitively and physiologically dangerous, because you're going down really fast, and then at the bottom you bounce back up. That's going to jar your spine and your knees. That's no good.
00:36:01 But now if I said I want you to put a chair behind you and I want you to try to sit down, except, the act of sitting down, I want you to take a minute to sit down. Like, literally, just try to – or another way to do this is get one inch above the chair and just try to hold that position. That is incredibly safe. There are no jarring movements. It's slow. It's completely controlled. And that's what we use when we train eccentrically. We train extremely slowly and we never change direction, so we really, really protect ourselves from injury.
00:36:40 In fact, one of the most popular areas for eccentric training is physical therapy, because it is so safe and it still allows us to work our muscles pretty intensely without stressing other areas of our body. And it's been used pretty widely in physical therapy circles for decades.
Desiree Stordahl: So, Jonathan, we're going to switch gears and go to caller questions here. And the number to call in is 347-426-3783.
00:37:08 But I have to get one last question in before we go to those callers. Because this is a skincare crazed audience, we know that eating better can benefit our bodies in a number of ways, but have you seen any research specifically on skin, and if so, what can help?
Jonathan Bailor: Absolutely. Your skin, as I'm sure all your listeners know, is the largest organ in the body. So, we talk about how diet and exercise can improve heart health and can improve liver function, well those are just organs, too.
00:37:38 So, it serves to reason that it can also improve the function of your skin. Things like eczema. Things like acne. These types of conditions, and even hair and nails, these are some of the things that readers report seeing the quickest results. And the reason for that is when you eat more but smarter, you are going to take in, in some cases, more nutrition – and when I say nutrition I mean things like vitamins, minerals, essential amino acids, essential fatty acids.
00:38:08 Things that we have to have to avoid death or sickness. You are going to take more of those in in one day than the average American takes in in a week. And when you flood your body with that much nutrition, you're skin will glow. You're hair will glow. You're eyes will glow. You'll have more of that youthful look, because again, you are rejuvenating that largest organ in your body which is your skin.
Desiree Stordahl: Are there any specific foods, or is it just eating smarter in general?
Jonathan Bailor: I would say that it's – it's really going to be a combination of the –it's SANE eating in general.
00:38:48 And the reason I say this is I can start to list off benefits for all – I mean, non-starchy vegetables, just the abundance of vitamins C and E and A and things like that. Those are great for your skin. But then we also need to look at our essential fatty acids, like our omega-3 fats that we're going to get from whole food natural fats and seafood. Those do phenomenal things for your skin.
00:39:08 And of course your skin fundamentally is protein, and water, and fat. So, when we eat that high quality protein it allows things like better protein synthesis in our bodies so that our cells can regenerate more robustly and our cell walls are stronger. So, all of those things are going to help you.
Desiree Stordahl: All right. So, everybody if you weren't already convinced, now you should be. It even helps your skin. So, Kate, can we go to our first caller?
Kate Mee: Yes, we have Claudia.
Desiree Stordahl: Hi, Claudia, what's your question.
Claudia: Okay. My question is I'm a little hesitant to use the whey and casein, how about Quinoa and Chia?
Jonathan Bailor: So, the question, don't want to use whey and casein, quinoa and chia. So, chia is a wonderful whole food natural fat.
00:40:07 So, I would absolutely recommend the consumption of Chia as part of your whole food natural fats. Great source of omega-3, vitamins, minerals, and fiber. It is not a good source of protein, though. Quinoa is a starch, so it's not going to fit into a SANE lifestyle. It's certainly more SANE than say white bread, but it's still going to be less SANE than say a non-starchy vegetable. So, if you're looking or non-milk based protein, maybe try something like a hemp powder or a pea protein, or even rice protein.
00:40:41 I would shy away from soy protein, but things like pea, hemp, and rice may be good options for you. And stick with the powders, because again, if you're looking for protein you want to make sure that what you're eating is actually mostly protein. I know that might sound common-sensical, but for example people say beans are a good source of protein. Well, most beans are about 70% carbohydrate. So, to call something that's 70% carbohydrate a good source of protein when for example whey is about 90% protein.
00:41:11 You're going to have to eat too many calories worth of beans to get a lot of protein, and then other bad things will happen.
Claudia: Okay. That sounds great. You've taught me a lot in your answer.
Desiree Stordahl: And Claudia, we're going to be sending you a link to Jonathan's e-book, The Smarter Science of Slim. And we'll also get in touch with you to see if there are any Paula's Choice products you'd like to try out. So, we'll be in touch via email. Did you have any other questions?
Claudia: I'm still – I'm happy to hear his answers. I learned a lot from his answers.
Desiree Stordahl: Awesome. We're learning a lot, too. Thanks so much, Claudia.
Claudia: Thank you.
Jonathan Bailor: If I could add one thing that might help Claudia. So, Claudia, if you do happen to go to the Smarter Science of Slim website, when you start doing things like buying nutritional supplements, that can become its own – I'm not a huge nutritional supplement fan because there's so much opportunity for shenanigans.
00:42:08 So, I have a thing called the SANE store. And, again, I don't sell any of my own brand supplements, but supplements that I know are high quality. I generally refer people to those if they're looking for them. So, check out the SANE store. Those proteins we talked about. There is a great reseller of those that I recommend there.
Claudia: What do you suggest --
Kate Mee: Oops. I'm sorry. I think we lost Claudia. Let's take Ellen in California.
Desiree Stordahl: Hi, Ellen. What's your question?
Ellen: Hi. I have a question for Jonathan about I'm very interested in your program. My daughter struggles with being overweight and I wondered if it was safe for teenagers?
Jonathan Bailor: It's absolutely safe for teenagers.
00:42:53 And just for anyone who may be wondering, "Will this work for me? Is this safe for me?" When I talk about eating sanely, what I'm talking about is essentially eating the foods that are found in nature. And if you think about it, it would be a little bit, well, beyond counterintuitive for human beings to thrive on anything other than foods that existed in nature since those were the only foods we could eat for the hundreds of thousands of years of our existence up until modern edible food like products.
00:43:30 So, you know, an abundance of non-starchy vegetables. Seafood. And healthy meats. And nuts. And seeds. These are going to be beneficial from a health perspective for everyone and especially children. Because when you think about kids, and this may not apply as much to teenagers, but somewhat, I'm talking about even younger kids because a very common question I get asked providing these children with an abundance of nutrition – I mean, these are kids that are growing. These are kids that need this nutrition.
00:44:01 And they're also individuals who are potentially more susceptible to mood swings, and influx of blood sugar that they can't control. And they become hyperactive and they have ADHD. And it aggravates the symptoms of autism and things like that. So, keeping our calories and our foods SANE and focusing on things we find in nature is even better for young people than it is for old people, just because they have so much more growing and development yet to do.
Ellen: Wow. That's great.
00:44:32 I sure appreciate it. Thank you.
Jonathan Bailor: My pleasure.
Desiree Stordahl: All right, Ellen. And we'll also be sending you a link to Jonathan's e-book. And I'll be in touch with you about Paula's Choice products for you and your children. All right, Kate, next caller.
Kate Mee: We have Joy.
Desiree Stordahl: Hi Joy. What's your question?
Joy: Hi. Well, I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I'm 66 years old and have been dieting for all those 40 years Jonathan mentioned, so I thank you all for doing this broadcast tonight.
00:45:04 It's great. I wasn't familiar with Jonathan before. So, I wondered what you could tell me for someone my age. Is it too late?
Jonathan Bailor: So, Joy, I'll tell you two things. What I'm going to start with, if you get an opportunity go to the Smarter Science of Slim website. And you get an opportunity to click on the support group tab. The single most popular conversation in that support group is Smarter Science of Slim for women over 40.
00:45:31 Because I've actually found that the Smarter Science of Slim, I did not expect this, but our number one, I guess, demographic is women between the ages of 35 and 65 simply because these are the women who know starvation and stair steppers doesn't work. Because they've tried it, and they've tried it, and they've tried it, and it doesn't work. So, they're looking for something else.
00:46:02 The answer is the good news, and I'll phrase it in terms of an analogy. God forbid you were diagnosed with diabetes, and god forbid a 16 year old was diagnosed with diabetes, or a man, or a woman, it doesn't matter. The treatment for diabetes is the same, fundamentally, regardless of your age or your gender. The treatment for overweight is fundamentally the same regardless of your age and your gender.
00:46:29 And it is, we've got to do five things. So, the first thing we have to do is we have to consume foods that make it hard for us to overeat. In other words, we have to eat foods that will trigger our body to tell us to stop when it should. A lot of foods don't do that. In fact, things like high fructose corn syrup are not even recognized as food by our body. This is why you can drink 600 calories worth of soda and then eat a bunch of pizza, whereas if you ate 600 calories worth of food, well you'd be full.
00:47:06 So we've got to make sure we're eating those foods. And we have to make sure that those foods create a hormonal environment that enables our body to burn fat. This is why we hear so much about insulin. When insulin is present in your bloodstream it is physiologically impossible for your body to burn fat. So, this is why we try to avoid foods that trigger a lot of insulin. And then in addition to this we've got to provide our body with a surplus of nutrients.
00:47:33 And this is why those non-starchy vegetables and nutrient dense proteins are so critical. Because if we don't do this, Joy, our body will think we're starving. And when our body thinks we're starving it slows down and then it burns off lean muscle tissue. And only then might it burn off some fat. But the bad news is that we just slowed down our metabolism and we just burned off our muscle tissue, so if we ever stop starving ourselves well then we're going to gain it all back.
00:47:59 But when we provide our body with an abundance of nutrition we can skip those first two steps, because how could we be starving. We've got more nutrition than we've ever had. We may have less calories because the foods we're eating are processed inefficiently by our body and we naturally eat less of them because they're so darn filling. So, we're satisfied. And we're getting an abundance of nutrition. And we've got a hormonal environment that facilitates fat loss. That is the proven prescription for anyone.
00:48:28 That's going to be a sustainable approach to fat loss. Now, there are of course are nuances around like thyroid issues and things which we're going to have to take on a case by case basis. But fundamentally that is the key for any age, any gender.
Joy: Great. Thank you.
Desiree Stordahl: All right. Thank you, Joy.
Jonathan Bailor: My pleasure.
Desiree Stordahl: Kate, next caller.
Kate Mee: We have Stephanie.
Stephanie: Hi. My name is Stephanie and thanks for picking this show. I'm calling because I actually started – I tried the SANE dieting, but I was training for a marathon and I think my first run after starting it was something like 16 miles. And after starting I just couldn't do it. I couldn't finish my run when I could have before.
00:49:14 And it was just I couldn't do the diet while I was training. Do you have any advice for people who are trying to train and want to do this diet?
Jonathan Bailor: Yes. So, first thing, it's not a diet. The only reason I say that, though, and I know this sounds a little bit silly, but a diet is by definition something we do temporarily. And, of course, if we ever stop it, like if you're on the freeway and you're driving 60 miles an hour and you take your foot off the accelerator, well you're just going to go back down to zero.
00:49:48 So, we've got to find something that we can do for our whole life. But a lot of us, right, we all kind of know that intuitively, but I like to remind us because we always see this N number of day diets. Well, then what happens on the day N plus 1? But, anyway, so the key thing – what you experienced is most people who eat a traditional western diet run primarily on glucose. So, this why we have to eat every two hours, because we eat and then there is glucose flowing around in our bloodstream. And our body is not able to burn fat effectively. So, then once we've cleared out that glucose our body is like, oh my god, I need to eat food, I need to eat food, because it can't essentially eat itself.
00:50:29 Which I know sounds weird, but that's what we do when we burn fat, right, we're eating ourselves, the parts of ourselves we want to eat, not the bad parts. Anyway, so the key is to become what is called keto-adapted, meaning that your body can readily tap into your fuel stores. Now, there is one, just one book called The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by Volek and Phinney which I highly recommend picking up because what that does is it – to be very clear, for the first two weeks of becoming keto-adaptive, or basically enabling your body to fuel itself on your stored fat is going to take some – there is a getting used to this period.
00:51:09 However, once you've done that, especially for endurance, it's incredibly promising. Here's why – your body can only store, and I'm doing this from memory, so I'm not going to get this exactly right, but it's something like 1,000 to 2,000 calories worth of glucose at any point in time. So, this is why you see marathoners needing to shoot those little glucose packets because they just run out of calories.
00:51:31 However, most of us have tens of thousands of calories worth of fat stored on our body. So, if we can train our body to run off of that, man, you could just keep running forever. Not literally, but you see what I'm saying. You have a lot more fat to burn than glucose. So, check out that book. And you will need to give it like an acclimation period, but then you should be good to go.
Stephanie: Okay. So maybe don't run 16 miles immediately.
Jonathan Bailor: Correct. And do check out those books because that is the one book –
Stephanie: Definitely.
Desiree Stordahl: Okay.
00:52:10 Stephanie, thanks for calling in. And I think we have time for one last caller. Let's go to Pam in North Dakota. Hi, Pam, are you there?
Pam: Yes, I am.
Desiree Stordahl: What's your question for Jonathan?
Pam: I was just wondering, normally when I go on some kind of eating program or something I experience sugar withdrawal and I was wondering if there is any – because I love carbohydrates – but I was just wondering if there is any way to deal with that or kind of control that? Or is going to be kind of a knuckle-biting couple weeks?
Jonathan Bailor: Well, Pam, I appreciate you not calling it a diet. "When I go on an eating program." You're like, "He's going to scold me if I say diet." No, I'm just kidding.
Pam: I know. Diets are temporary.
Jonathan Bailor: It's all good. So, Pam, I've got good news and bad news. The good news is you shouldn't feel bad. This isn't something specific to you. Sugar addiction is a clinically proven phenomena.
00:53:13 I talk about this in my book. But they've done studies on mammals showing that you feed them sugar and things like this and then they take them off sugar and they see the same kind of reaction in the brain as when you take someone off of a stimulant, or an opioid, or something like that. So it is a proven thing. The good news is don't feel bad about yourself. You're not some anomaly that, you know, you don't need to work harder. You're doing nothing wrong.
00:53:43 The challenge is that you are going to have to go through withdrawal. It takes most of the time, in the most, most severe cases, three weeks. For many people it takes like a matter of days. So, the key thing, though, one thing that I find when I talk about this with people that helps them is, so, let's say 21 days, worst case scenario. I'm going to say two things that are hopefully helpful from a psychological perspective. You can tell me if they're not.
00:54:15 Think 21 days for the next 21 years of my life. Like give me 21 days and the next 21 years will be fabulous. The second thing is the fact that we go through withdrawal, it seems to suggest just how diabolical these substances are, right? The fact that they are taking over our mental capacity – talk about a toxin. Talk about something that we want to avoid for reasons beyond how we look. I mean, that's just poison.
00:54:50 We don't want that kind of stuff. So, hopefully those help to provide some mental support for what I know is generally a bit of a painful process. But, actually, I'll give you one more tip and that is if you're going through sugar withdrawal and you're hungry, that's a one-two punch many people can't stand up to. However, if you're enjoying as much SANE food as you'd like, whenever you like, it helps to dull the pain quite a bit.
Pam: Okay. That works.
Desiree Stordahl: And Jonathan when you were saying 21 days, is that because that's how long it takes to break or to develop a habit, or why the 21 days were you saying?
Jonathan Bailor: Well, so the 21 days is, yes, to develop a habit. But often times it depends on how severe the addiction is. For example, you know, breaking an addiction to nicotine depends a bit on how addicted to nicotine someone is.
00:55:43 So, some individuals are able to give up sugar and starch and they feel pretty crappy for about 3 days. But then on day 4 they feel pretty good. And actually what they find is then two weeks in the future they have a cheat day, because that's fine if you want to do it every once in awhile. But then they feel like crap because their body isn't used to these toxins. So, the only reason I said 21 days, just worst case; for a lot of people, it's a matter of days, not a matter of weeks.
00:56:08 But do, if it's two weeks and you're still feeling kind of bad, you're not doing anything wrong. That just means this condition exists and give it one more week and then it will be gone.
Pam: All right. Thank you.
Desiree Stordahl: Thank you, Pam.
Jonathan Bailor: My pleasure.
Desiree Stordahl: And we'll be sending you the link to Jonathan's e-book as well as a Paula's Choice product of your choice. So, we're going to have to wrap up. This went by so fast.
00:56:34 Thank you so much, Jonathan. Tons of great information. Again, his website is You can buy his book. He's the author of The Smarter Science of Slim. You can look for him on iTunes. Jonathan, it was a pleasure.
Cynthia Short: Thanks, Jonathan.
Jonathan Bailor: I'm happy to help. And thank you for having me, ladies.
Desiree Stordahl: Thank you. All right. So, upcoming shows. On October 9 we have one-minute skin rules with dermatologist and author Debra Jaliman. On the 23rd of October we have celebrity makeup tips with makeup artist Kimberly Heintzman. Got to tune in for that one; Kimberly is amazing at what she does. And on November 6, what do wear – pro stylist tips for any occasion with Darcy Camden of Style Seattle.
00:57:20 So, Kate, I know we promised listeners just a sneak peak. We've got a couple minutes left. What can you tell them about what's in development for Paula's Choice?
Kate Mee: We have a lot of exciting products in development. Probably over 30 products that we're working on right now. But what we have coming up for the rest of the year is in December we're going to be launching the Resist Instant Smoothing Anti-Aging Foundation which is an incredible medium coverage foundation that's going to come in a wide array of shades.
00:57:49 And it's just loaded with antioxidants and skin repairing ingredients. We're really excited about it. And we'll also be launching that with the Perfect Shine Hydrating Lip Gloss which is a nice, very smooth and sheer lip gloss that's going to be in, I think, five shades. So, we're very excited about that as well.
Desiree Stordahl: So excited. I know that tons of our customers have been asking us to bring some more makeup back. So, this is going to make them happy. All right, well we're signing off for the Paula's Choice Research Team and Be Beautifully Informed. We are on every other Tuesday at 6pm Pacific Time, 9pm Eastern. And you can listen to archived episodes via iTunes or at Good night everybody.
Skip to Top of Page
[{"Key":"SpecialOffers","Name":"SpecialOffers","BrontoID":"0bbf03e9000000000000000000000000ead0","Label":"Web Specials & Daily Deals","DisplayDescription":"","DisplayRestrictions":"","Value":null},{"Key":"SpecialOffersLessFrequent","Name":"SpecialOffersLessFrequent","BrontoID":"0bbf03e90000000000000000000000012122","Label":"Web Specials","DisplayDescription":"","DisplayRestrictions":"Less Frequent","Value":null},{"Key":"BeautypediaExclusives","Name":"BeautypediaExclusives","BrontoID":"0bbf03e9000000000000000000000000eace","Label":"Beauty Exclusives","DisplayDescription":"Expert Advice Newsletter ","DisplayRestrictions":"twice a month","Value":null},{"Key":"BeautypediaUpdates","Name":"BeautypediaUpdates","BrontoID":"0bbf03e9000000000000000000000000ead1","Label":"Beautypedia Updates","DisplayDescription":"New reviews on Beautypedia ","DisplayRestrictions":"twice a month","Value":null}]


Paula’s Choice Auto Delivery is a quick and convenient way to make sure you never run out of your favorite products again. Just select the products you can’t live without, choose how often you’d like them delivered and we’ll take care of the rest.

Get 10% off your first order when you sign up today.