Tips for the Perfect Foundation

Airdate: 1/31/12

Back by popular demand, TV makeup artist Kimberly Heintzman joins the program to share her tips for finding the perfect foundation and applying it flawlessly. Kimberly will also reveal her secret to covering large birthmarks, scars and red marks from acne.

Desiree Stordahl: Welcome to "Be Beautifully Informed." Tonight we have the privilege of talking to a special woman. Her name is Kimberly Heintzman. She is a makeup master extraordinaire. She is going to be revealing her best foundation tips, tips for concealing very prominent scars, discolorations, all that kind of stuff. She just is a beautiful woman, and has an incredible story.
00:00:27 But before we get to Kimberly, I have to introduce our fabulous Paula's Choice Research Team. We have our skincare and beauty experts Bryan Barron and Daynah Burnett. Hi guys!
Bryan Barron: Hello.
Daynah Burnett: Hello.
Desiree Stordahl: Hello, hello. And if our listeners didn't know yet, we are working on the 9th edition of the "Don't go to the Cosmetics Counter Without Me" books. So, all three of us, actually - Daynah, Bryan, and myself, along with Paula - are working on that book. Daynah, this is your second book, right, with Paula?
Daynah Burnett: That's correct. And, I think, Bryan, it is your 30th, right?
Bryan Barron: At least!
Desiree Stordahl: So we are plugging away on that.
00:01:05 And, also, we wanted to let you know that we are starting a new format with the show, so we want to take lots more caller questions, we are going to be hitting through our topics quicker. So, call in early; call in with your questions for Kimberly about makeup, foundation, whatever it may be, and the number to call in is 347-426-3783.
00:01:26 So Kimberly is an expert, and that is why we go to her. She has beautiful, amazing tips for concealing skin imperfections. She knows how to do foundation like nobody else. You can actually see how great she is when you go to her website. It is called And you can see some before and after pictures on there. Her work is inspired by her own personal experience, and she has dedicated her life to helping others with serious skin discolorations, scars, and birthmarks. She has appeared as a beauty expert on countless news programs and talk shows.
00:01:59 I have actually seen her on a couple of them, including Dr. Oz. And so without further adieu, let's go to Kimberly. Hi Kimberly.
Kimberly Heintzman: Hi, everyone; it is such a pleasure to be back. Thank you for having me.
Desiree Stordahl: We are glad to have you back. So, quickly, could you give our listeners a little bit of a rundown about your personal experience with concealing birthmarks and such?
Kimberly Heintzman: Well, sure. I was born with a birthmark, which is actually - the category of the birthmark I have is called a Port Wine Stain. So, it is a bright pink/purplish/reddish birthmark, just on my cheek.
00:02:38 So it is a vascular birthmark and the only way to correct besides wearing foundation is to do several laser treatments, which I started doing laser treatments in my early 20s, and it made a little bit of a difference, but my birthmark is quite prominent, and noticeable.
00:02:58 And because of that, as a young girl I felt, like kids would tease or stare, always ask me about it, and I just wanted to blend in with the other kids in school. So, at the age of13 years old, I started playing with foundations. And my mom took me out to the department stores, and I had everyone trying everything they had at the time on me. And Estée Lauder, and green color correctors, and all of these full coverage foundations, and it really was an amazing experience for me because once I found the products, and I started working with them on my own at home that made such a world of difference in my self-confidence.
00:03:42 During those awkward years of adolescence, and I just wanted to be beautiful like all the other girls, and magazines, and all those things that you go through as a teenager. But it was a really amazing experience for me to teach myself, and therefore in my early 20s I decided to make a career out of it.
00:04:04 I went out there, and I found my calling, and it was just a blessing to be able to take something that was so close to my heart, and so personal, and to be able to work with people just like me that had serious skin discolorations, whether they were on the face or the body, and really have powerful effects on people's self-confidence, and bringing people to tears of relief and joy, that they, too, can feel confident about their appearance.
00:04:35 And it has just been an amazing journey, and I absolutely love, love to help people with serious skin discolorations.
Bryan Barron: Well, Kimberly, this is Bryan. I have some questions lined up for you. And then I understand you are going to stay on the line with us for the remainder, and take some calls from our listeners.
Kimberly Heintzman: Yeah. Sure.
Bryan Barron: That is wonderful. I can identify with your story to a certain extent, not to the same extent. When I was around that age, 13 or so, and that age where kids start definitely becoming more aware of their appearance, I hated the fact that I had freckles and acne. Because no one else I went to school with seemed to be bothered by this.
00:05:21 You know, everyone else had beautiful skin, and especially the guys. The girls were doing a little bit here and there, and maybe using some Sea Breeze or Noxzema, because we didn't know any better, but the guys were just soap and water, and that was it, and they had this beautiful, flawless skin that would always tan. And I just couldn't keep up. And I eventually did find myself at the cosmetic counters looking for something to just cover it all up. I didn't know much about skincare at all; I just figured, "Well, I have seen my mom use makeup to make her skin look better, so maybe I can find something."
00:05:59 And I deluded myself into thinking that these heavy, full-coverage foundations were is some way a better option than going without. And it was just kind of a mess. And I ended up not doing it.
Kimberly Heintzman: Aw.
Bryan Barron: But, foundations, I'm sure you would agree that foundations in general have improved immeasurably...
Kimberly Heintzman: Yes.
Bryan Barron: ...since when we were teenagers.
Kimberly Heintzman: Yes, definitely. There is a lot of, actually, foundations have become known to be a very healthy thing to wear on your skin.
00:06:29 They had a reputation of being unhealthy for your skin, so yes, they definitely have come a long way. I agree.
Bryan Barron: So, when you have a client, do the ever ask you about shopping for foundation at the drugstore? And, if so, what general tips do you offer them? How do they find a good foundation when you really can't try it on until you get home?
Kimberly Heintzman: Well, yeah. You are absolutely right. I do get that question a lot.
00:06:58 And just to know the answer to that, I have actually done it for myself. So, I think some of the best tips that I could give you that I have tried, and that I have recommended, are maybe one thing that I think is great is to take something that you already have that you like, something from home, and maybe a bottle or what have you, and bring that to the store with you so you are not just looking at all of the shades at once without something to compare it to.
00:07:27 So, I think that is a great tip. I think that - I have actually had success, too, with contacting the company directly, and asking them if they have samples. And surprisingly enough, some companies do offer samples. So that is another avenue. And then, these days, a lot of the drugstores are doing department store style environments, and they have really amazing return and exchange policies.
00:08:00 And a lot of them have beauty advisers. I know that even at Target now they have beauty advisers. And, that is what they are there for. So, utilize all of the resources in the store. That is what I think is a great way to go.
Bryan Barron: Okay. So, when you are applying foundation, either to yourself or to others, I wanted to ask you about the tools that you use. And specifically, give us your top three tools that you think are just indispensible for a smooth, flawless foundation application.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay.
00:08:34 Well I am not sure if this counts as a tool, but one of my best tips is to use clean hands.
Bryan Barron: That absolutely counts.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay. So that is something that I have always had tremendous success with, because I really feel like if your hands are clean, and you are applying whatever liquid or cream, you are really blending the products into your skin, and I always think that is the most flawless application.
00:09:00 So, clean hands. There are a few foundation brushes on the market that I think are great. You kind of have to practice with them because everyone has a different technique, but for example, CoverFX has a really nice brush that I have tried that I like. And it is not like their traditional flat foundation brushes; it is more rounded. So what you end up doing is you end up buffing the foundation into the skin, and once again, it is all about blending while you are applying.
00:09:33 And just like with your fingertips, this brush gives you a nice blending quality and finish. And then, I'm just kind of old school, but I really love sponges. And I just think triangular sponges are amazing. I think they get around the eye. I think you can blend. Definitely, for sanitary reasons, you can just get a big bag, use them once. I know they can have a tendency to absorb some of the product, but they really do a flawless and smooth application, and the finish is always beautiful.
00:10:07 And they are really great for building, and that is when you are doing corrective concealing, they are great for building layers on layers until you can reach the coverage that you need.
Bryan Barron: Okay. How about some tips, this is a tough one, I know, so I hope I am not putting you on the spot too much, but tips for getting foundation to look right over wrinkles?
Kimberly Heintzman: Ah! That's a very popular question. So, I always go back to one of my favorite philosophies in foundation, and makeup, is makeup only looks as good as the skin underneath.
00:10:43 So, with that said, I'm a really big fan of promoting great hydration, using really good moisturizers, because you can actually plump up those wrinkles, believe it or not, and you can make your foundation look a lot smoother. So, I always start with recommending using a great moisturizer, letting it absorb into the skin for about five to ten minutes before you put on your foundation products.
00:11:12 What can happen is if that moisturizer hasn't absorbed, it will dilute the foundation, and you don't get as much coverage as you need. So that is one application tip for fine lines, but for fine lines and wrinkles, also, it is about the formula of the foundation. And I like - a lot of formulas on the market these days will say "transfer and crease resistant," so you want to look out for something like that. And then, third, when you apply a product like that, you want to put in the first layer on, let it absorb, and come back and pat it into the skin again. And then you set it with the powder and it should be really good for the day.
Desiree Stordahl: Oh, that's a good tip.
Bryan Barron: When you say pat it into the skin, are you saying to do that with clean fingers, or a sponge, or whatever your personal preference is?
Kimberly Heintzman: Whatever you preference is.
00:12:04 Whatever you use to apply it, you just [come off] with the applicator because it will still have a little bit of product on it, if it was a sponge or a brush, just tap it a little bit, and when you tap, you are blending when you are tapping. So, it is with a light tapping, whether it is under the eye or whatever the area is you are concealing. And then set it with your foundation. So, it sometimes is a layering process, and you just have to have a little patience, but it is worth it because you get such a longer wear out of the look.
Bryan Barron: Speaking of long wear, Kimberly, are you a fan of any of the makeup setting sprays.
00:12:41 An example would be Model in a Bottle, if you have heard of that. Have you played with any of those?
Kimberly Heintzman: You know, I really haven't. I'm pretty, like for me personally, I just really like - I think that loose powder is absorbed into the foundation and to the skin so well, I have never really needed one. But then again, I have never lived in a humid climate; that could affect the wear of a foundation.
00:13:13 So I think it has a lot to do with your environment. And even the product, if the product has a matte finish, does the product have a luminous, more hydrating finish? So, it really just depends.
Bryan Barron: So, you keep leading me into my next question here. This is amazing.
Kimberly Heintzman: Great.
Bryan Barron: You mention luminous, and when we were meeting before the show we definitely wanted to ask you about highlighters, brightening type products. There is kind of a new group of concealer-like products out there who they don't necessarily provide a lot of coverage, but they definitely give a luminosity to the skin. They can brighten naturally shadowed areas. You may want to use them over a concealer, of if you don't have much darkness you could use them on their own. What do you think of those types of products?
00:14:06 And how could a woman use a highlighter type product for every day makeup versus what she may go through for a special occasion?
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay. Well, I think, they really vary a lot in how much they shine, the consistency. They come in powder, they come in cream, they come in liquid. So, there are a lot of variations in every brand.
Bryan Barron: Which ones would you prefer to work with?
Kimberly Heintzman: You know, this is the thing, too. Okay, so there is a difference in the application, too.
00:14:45 Because you can find things like, for example, Bare Minerals has an illuminating powder that has - it is their Mineral Veil, but it highlights. So that is something that you would wear all over. And that gives an all-over glow to the skin, which is great if your skin is on the dull side, and you are looking for more vibrance.
00:15:07 But then there are highlighters that you put on the top of the cheek, on the top of the brow, over the nose, and that creates an illusion to bring up and lift your features, your cheekbones, and things of that nature. So, I guess...I think it is one of those products that it is really, really important to get beauty advice, and get expert advice.
00:15:31 There are a lot of resources for that online. For example, Sephora has a customer service line. You can call them and get expert advice on what you are looking for. But, also, utilizing the beauty advisers in any cosmetic store to show you. I think it is something that you really need to try on before you just buy one and put it all over, because it can just end up looking over-the-top, and like you said, it might end up looking like a nighttime/evening look versus a daytime look.
00:16:01 Does that answer your question at all? I hope.
Bryan Barron: Yeah. I think, well, two things. I think it is also helpful, or easier particularly with the liquids, to experiment with them, and maybe mix a dab of it into our foundation or concealer for a more subtle effect.
Kimberly Heintzman: Yes.
Bryan Barron: Especially for daytime. And in regards to consulting beauty experts, that is a bit of a loaded issue. And I will tell you why.
00:16:32 Our team spends many, many hours in department stores, and drugstore, and Sephora, dealing with cosmetics salespeople. There are absolutely some amazingly talented people out there, but a lot of them, at least in our area, they are little more than sales clerks. And they are well-intentioned - I don't doubt that they are not being sincere, and that they really do believe what they are telling you, but there is a lot of misinformation out there.
00:17:01 So just as a general caution for our listeners, taking up Kimberly's advice, make sure that you either - the two things that we found that work really well is when you are looking for makeup tips at the department store, focus on the brands that are founded by a makeup artist. Brands like Bobbi Brown, M.A.C., Stila, NARS, Laura Mercier, I'm sure I am missing a few.
00:17:32 The salespeople that work for those lines, they are often trained as makeup artists, or they come to the brand as makeup artists, and a lot of them are incredibly talented. And then another tip we always like to share when you are shopping for makeup at the department store is look for someone whose makeup style you admire. Someone who has really cool smoky eyes, or a gorgeous red lip, or just their blush looks spot on, their skin tone looks perfect. And then ask them what they do.
00:18:00 "How do you get your makeup to look like that?"
Kimberly Heintzman: That's great advice. I agree with you 100%.
Desiree Stordahl: Kimberly, I have a question for you. You mentioned color correctors earlier, so what is your opinion on those? Do they work? Do they not work?
Kimberly Heintzman: It is very, very subjective. It really has to do with the individual and what they are actually trying to achieve.
00:18:27 For example, I mean, for me I have purplenesss in certain parts of my port wine stain. So I get great coverage with my foundation, and then I will use a little bit of a color corrector just on the top of the little spot that I have a purplish undertone. And what it does is it neutralizes. So, I'm not --
Desiree Stordahl: What color is the color corrector that you use?
Kimberly Heintzman: I would use something kind of on the peachy, or a little bit red or peachy undertone to neutralize the purple.
00:19:00 So, it is really - it depends on what the discoloration is, and then there are certain ways to use things like that. There are primers that have color correctors these days. So that is great for somebody who doesn't really need a lot of coverage, that just wants to wear something really light that evens out the skin tone. But, depending on how high the pigment is in the actual foundation is going to determine the brand or the consistency of the actual corrector. Does that make sense?
Desiree Stordahl: Yeah.
00:19:34 And so for somebody who had maybe like a very bright red blemish that they were trying to hide that day, would you suggest doing a color corrector over that, or do you think that it is better to just go with a good concealer that has high coverage?
Kimberly Heintzman: I think if it is something just for an every day, I think a concealer will do the job. I think color correctors are definitely for somebody who is really working with makeup and who is more artistically inclined, who is really putting a lot of energy and time into their look, and it is more of a polished - it is an extra step.
00:20:17 And, so, I think that if you can achieve and get the coverage that you need from a concealer, I think that is just a lot easier, and saves a lot of time. And, I think, it can be just as effective.
Desiree Stordahl: Got it. Cool.
Bryan Barron: So, moving onto the big question, before we take some questions for callers, Kimberly what are - this is multi-answer, I'm guessing - red marks from acne, or just red marks in general, or maybe more diffuse redness from Rosacea, and then brown spots from sun damage, especially when they are those, someone with a light skin tone where it is more of that, almost a café-au-lait spot.
00:21:00 What are your best tips for concealing those? How can we do that so that they look like skin and not like wearing a bunch of makeup or they look too ashy?
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay. First of all, ashy, that can really be caused from the actual product, if there is a lot of titanium dioxide in a product, it will make the formula turn ashy on the skin. And titanium dioxide is a great ingredient, because as we know, it protects you from the sun and the environment.
00:21:31 But, my best tip is to find the formula that you like, whatever is - I think a lot of companies that have a couple of different formulas in their line, whether it is a liquid, a cream, and a concealer. And sometimes, or quite frequently, you can find that the concealers match the foundations. And this is kind of reverse of what a lot of people, a lot of my clients have done for several years is we used to put concealer on the area, and then we would put the foundation on.
00:22:09 And actually what I was taught to do, and what I taught myself, what works great is to use the actual lighter coverage foundation first, and that creates the base, and it evens out the skin tone. It makes the product blend in from the face to the neck. And another little tip, by the way, is to go one or two shades darker, because when you go just a little bit darker you create a shadow on the skin, and it just makes everything blend easily, and looks softer.
00:22:38 So, then with that said, after you put the first layer of foundation on, I go back over it with a concealer second. When you are doing corrective concealing, you use the concealer on top of the foundation, and then that way you are also building the coverage. Does that make sense?
Bryan Barron: Yes.
00:23:00 And I think that leads us nicely into our first questions which was about order of application for concealer, correct?
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay.
Bryan Barron: I don't think Daynah has unmuted herself.
Daynah Burnett: I'm sorry. We have Jen from Pennsylvania on the line...
Bryan Barron: There we go.
Daynah Burnett: ...and she does have a question about when to apply concealer. Jen, are you there?
Jen: Yes, I'm here. Hi, how are you?
Kimberly Heintzman: Hi there, Jen.
Jen: I have a question about, and you sort of touched on this a little bit, about putting concealer on.
00:23:35 I've got, you know, red marks and blemishes. I do have a dark brown spot on my cheek. And I'm just trying to struggle to keep them covered. And so I have been playing around, like using concealer first, and then my foundation, and flip-flopping it. But I am really having a hard time getting good coverage.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay.
00:24:02 What product are you using?
Jen: I just actually started using Pure Minerals, the four-in-one mineral powder, because I have - I really don't like to wear the liquid foundation, and I like the light feel of the mineral, the powder. So, I don't know if that would be, you know, I'm struggling with that, and just trying to, you know, I feel like I am just layering, upon layering, upon layering. And it gets so cakey.
Kimberly Heintzman: Yeah.
00:24:35 That will definitely happen with powder, and I know, are you putting it on with a sponge or a brush?
Jen: I have tried both, actually. I actually use a primer first, and then, you know, right now I am doing the primer, and then the concealer, and then the foundation. I've been using sort of a mix of a brush and a sponge.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay.
00:25:00 And are you committed to only using a powder foundation, or would you consider trying a cream, that looked like a powder finish. Is that an option?
Jen: It would be an option, if I found something. Yes.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay. Well, I would love to suggest a product that I actually use, that I think is really great for building coverage, but it also has a powder finish. And it is something by a company called Exuviance. And it is called Cover Blend.
00:25:32 And it actually is an amazing concealing treatment foundation, and I love the way that it builds the coverage, and high opacity, and it actually binds to the skin when you are building the coverage. So, once you put it on, it is really set for the day, and it really works with all skin types. And it is very actually healthy for the skin.
00:25:56 How does that product rate with you guys?
Bryan Barron: Are you referring to the one that has SPF 20?
Kimberly Heintzman: Yes.
Bryan Barron: Yeah, actually that is probably our favorite foundation for someone who needs more significant coverage.
Kimberly Heintzman: Wow. That is great to hear.
Bryan Barron: It is a far cry from like classic Dermablend which is difficult to work with. It is greasy. It is heavy. It is more akin to stage makeup than something you would want to wear every day.
Kimberly Heintzman: Exactly.
00:26:31 And Cover Blend is unique because it is water-based versus mineral oil-based, and, I just have some exciting news about the brand. I just recently learned that they are launching a whole new group and a series of shades, which is amazing because in the past their shades tended to be a little on the pink side, and they have really moved into the yellow-based shades. So, I haven't even tried them yet, but I am very excited to try them.
00:26:59 So, to get back to Jen's question. Jen, if you could maybe try that product, and what I'm hearing, and what I think is happening is that I think you are trying to build coverage with a product that doesn't have enough pigment to build. So you are just getting too much product, and it is looking cakey and feeling heavy, and it is just not meeting your needs. Am I right?
Jen: Yes.
Kimberly Heintzman: So I think a cream-based and a loose powder to finish.
00:27:31 Something you want to be cautious of, too, is mineral powder doesn't always mix really well with products that aren't mineral-based, as far as any kind of - just a regular - if you put mineral makeup that has high coverage on top of a foundation that it doesn't mix right with, the formulas, they don't work together on the skin. And then it can cause that heavy, cakey feeling.
00:28:01 It can kind of asphyxiate the skin, if you will; so, it is really important just to use something that is water-based, let's your skin breathe, treats your skin at the same time.
Jen: Okay.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay?
Bryan Barron: You go, I'll wait.
Jen: And then you still do the concealer before, and then a little bit after to cover up?
Kimberly Heintzman: You might not even need it with the Cover Blend foundation.
00:28:32 It has really high pigment, and you can - it is all about how you put it on. So, a little bit for the first layer, and then you just add a little bit more wherever you need it, and I mean I think it is amazing. A little practice, though. Just be patient, and practice with it. And my best tip for application when using high pigmented products like that is to actually have a hand mirror and sit in the natural light, just to make sure the color is right, and that you are blending it into the skin.
00:29:03 And that way you always look great indoors and outdoors.
Jen: Terrific. I will try it.
Kimberly Heintzman: Great.
Jen: Thank you so much.
Bryan Barron: And, Jen, we are going to send you, I have a Paula's Choice product I want to send you to help with the red marks, and also provide some hydration that can serve as a base for your makeup, so you may want to try instead of the primer. It is our Resist Anti-Aging Clear Skin Hydrator. So you can give that a go.
00:29:29 See how you like it under the foundation that Kimberly recommended. And the Exuviance brand is one that, at least in the Seattle area, I typically see it at Ulta stores. Kimberly, any other locations?
Kimberly Heintzman: That would definitely be the best place, Ulta Cosmetics, for sure.
Bryan Barron: Okay.
Jen: I have one close by. Great. Thank you so much.
Kimberly Heintzman: Thank you.
Jen: Have a great night.
Kimberly Heintzman: You too.
Bryan Barron: Who is up next, Daynah?
Daynah Burnett: All right. Our next caller is Dee from California. And she has a question about how to apply makeup. Dee, you are on the air.
Dee: Hi.
Kimberly Heintzman: Hi Dee.
Dee: Can you hear me?
Kimberly Heintzman: Yes.
Dee: Okay, great.
00:30:06 Well my problem is contained in the nose area. So, I have dry skin, and I can get my makeup looking pretty good, and sometimes very good, on the rest of my face, but almost never on my nose. My nose is not what I would say oily, but it is not as dry as the rest of my face, so there are probably maybe little tiny beads of oil, maybe come up from the nose.
00:30:36 What happens is, when I apply foundation to my nose, then right away, or in a very short time, the makeup is broken up, so it looks like little pinholes appearing. That happens no matter what I do, or don't do, underneath the foundation.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay.
00:31:01 And what are you using, what are you applying? What is your process and your application?
Dee: Of the foundation itself?
Kimberly Heintzman: Well, do you put a moisturizer on the area, or a primer, or then a foundation?
Dee: Well, I have tried all of those things. I think it is important to use a sunscreen, so my habit is to use a sunscreen over my entire face and neck area, and on the other parts of my body that are exposed, of course.
00:31:34 But, I can never get that smooth foundation look over it. But if I don't use a sunscreen, I still can't get it. The only thing that I have ever done that has come close, and this is bizarre, is if I have already applied the foundation, and whatever else underneath - primer - if I take it off with the Paula's Choice Makeup Remover, let that evaporate, and then put the foundation on, that is the only way I come close to not having that pinhole effect.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay.
Bryan Barron: So, Dee, I'm going to interject real quick, and I'm wondering if you ever tried the Paula's Choice Shine Stopper Instant Matte Finish?
Dee: I did, but I don't remember if I tried it underneath or on the top.
00:32:31 I don't recall that.
Bryan Barron: Okay. Let's, just in case you happen to return it or maybe have misplaced it, we will send you another tube of that. What I think you could do to help with the situation is to, when your foundation is on, is over the nose area, is set, take a little bit of the Shine Stopper, warm it between your fingers, and very gently pat it into the nose. Just use very soft, almost stippling type patting motions.
00:33:02 You don't want to rub your foundation off. And, that is not going to affect the sunscreen underneath, so don't worry about that. And I think that will get you to where you want to be, and solve this issue. So, let's give that a try. And then, Daynah, do we have another caller?
Daynah Burnett: We do. Actually, this is a great question; I want to know about this. This is Becky from Nebraska, and she wants to know about how to determine her skin tone. Becky, are you there? You are on air.
Becky: I am.
00:33:31 Hi. You hear so many different tips and advice about how to determine what your undertone, you skin tone is, so that you can pick a good foundation. And I am just at a loss at what you should be really looking at to see if you are yellow-based or peach based, or more neutral. I just need some advice on how to really get a correct reading for my skin so I can get a good foundation.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay. Did you want me to answer that question?
Bryan Barron: Oh, Kimberly, yes. You are our special guest.
00:34:05 I may interject, and forgive me for that.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay, great. My best advice for color matching, because you can actually see this area of your skin without holding a mirror, and a lot of people color match on the jaw, but that is usually only good if someone else is doing it. So, I can always look at the inside of your wrist, and that area right there is a great place to not only look to see what your undertone is, but it is usually an area that is not highly affected by sunlight.
00:34:40 So it doesn't change, the skin tone doesn't change there very often. And it is a true area that does match the undertones in your skin. So -
Bryan Barron: Kimberly, I just wanted to make clear, because for example, if I look at the inside of my wrist, I can get a sense of the undertone. But for sure, because of what you said about less sun exposure, the skin on the inside of my wrist is markedly lighter than on my face. So, this isn't about matching exactly. It is about identifying the undertone, yes?
Kimberly Heintzman: Yes.
00:35:13 This is where you can identify the undertone. And then it is a great place to look at the coverage where you can work, if you have foundations and you are trying them, to put them on the inside of the wrist because here we usually have thin skin and we have veins, and you can actually see what the coverage is like. And it is a great place because it is right in front of you. It is your skin. And you are not struggling to look in the mirror with the hand mirror, and match a foundation that way.
00:35:41 And typically if you put a foundation on that area that is very yellow, and it doesn't blend in whatsoever, you can see the contrast of the pink skin and the yellow foundation. So, you can see a lot of color contrast. And you just have - there is a great visibility right there, and you are looking at your skin tone.
00:36:00 So I think that is a good way to do it, if you are on your own, and you don't have anyone that can look at you and tell you what your undertone is. But, undertone can also be different than the actual color of your skin, because so many things can happen like environment, medication, Rosacea, acne. I mean, all different things can affect your skin tone, but you are absolutely right. It is the undertone that you are trying to match with the foundation. Does that help at all?
Becky: I think it does.
00:36:31 So maybe, if I am understanding correctly, so it might be good to try like a very yellow-based and a very pink-based, and that would help me better determine that under base more quickly?
Kimberly Heintzman: Yes. I think it will. And I think it will, and I think that is the whole thing with trying foundations on - one of my best tips is to go in and get samples. That is your best bet. And actually trying them on the skin. Just put it on and watch how it changes on your skin, because a lot of foundations, once they absorb they will adjust to your skin tone, and I think that you really see what works with your skin, depending on how much pigment the foundation has, what the coverage is, and etc.
Bryan Barron: And just to add to that, and Kimberly, let me know if you agree, but you had mentioned earlier about the Exuviance Cover Bland shades improving and getting a bit away from some of those pink or rosy tones.
00:37:35 It's not that you shouldn't look for a foundation with a bit of pink to it if you have a cooler, or more blue-based, as opposed to yellow-based undertone, but you still want it to err on the neutral side. Correct? Meaning that if I have a really pink or ruddy skin tone, and I'm looking or a foundation, or if I have Rosacea and I am trying to find a good foundation, I don't want to pick a color that is going to match what I am trying to hide, what I want to even out.
Kimberly Heintzman: Right.
00:38:04 Yes, you are right. If it is a contrasting color between the face and the neck, you basically would want to pick something right in between, If there is something that has more pigment in it, because then it will blend better. If you pick a shade, if you are color correcting, and you have a lot of redness in your skin, and you match the foundation to your neck, it would contrast - like contrast as in it would highlight it.
00:38:37 So it would just make it look more obvious. That is when you want to start going a couple of shades darker, but then you want to get the undertone correct. So, it is really tricky. I mean, I think this is the hardest, most challenging part with foundation, the undertone, and getting the right color. And it has taken me trying a lot of different things.
00:39:00 And my skin tone changes throughout the year. And, believe it or not, I have had several clients over the years that just tell me that they just have to mix. And it is not even like it is something you have to do, it actually becomes kind of fun. Makeup is fun. And there is nothing wrong with mixing a couple of shades together and getting your perfect shade. It is a custom match. So, I always encourage my clients to do that.
00:39:27 And you can create any kind of look you want by just adjusting your foundation a couple of shades.
Bryan Barron: And there are more shades than ever.
Daynah Burnett: I was going to say, we have a caller here who, I think, could use your expertise. We've got Pam from Texas, and she wants to know how to cover up dark circles. Pam, you are on the air.
Pam: Hi, how are you?
Kimberly Heintzman: Hi Pam. Thanks for calling.
Pam: Hi. I tend to have allergies, and with allergies I get like dark circles under my eyes, no matter how much I sleep.
00:39:59 And I have tried a lot of products over the years. They have really expensive products where you put them on under your eyes, and for a month or two then the darkness would go away, and then I have also tried concealers. I have tried like a light green concealer that would offset the kind of dark red, dark brown. And then I have also tried something now, and it is kind of a light pink.
00:40:27 And I don't think any of them do a good job. I'm just wondering what you would tell someone.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay. Well this is a great question. You would probably want to work with something that had more of like a peachy, but just the color correctors, have you ever had a palette of color correctors that had a couple of different shades in it? Have you ever tried one that had like three different shades, like the yellow, peach, or green? Have you ever had that?
Pam: I tend to wear the lightest color on the lightest scale. So, I have got a little Rosacea, but I have got a lot of gold in my skin.
00:41:04 And so it kind of sticks out. And so I have kind of tried to neutralize a little bit, because I can't totally make it go away. Because I am so fair, it is hard to cover.
Kimberly Heintzman: You could definitely play around with the neutralizers, but when I am working with my clients that have really noticeably dark circles around the eye, what I always suggest is sometimes it is kind of a color correcting tip in its own, but having two shades of concealers.
00:41:34 And the first shade you apply, the first layer, is the darker one. And then that ends up matching, more or less blending in with your skin tone. And then when you come back, the second one is a shade lighter, and then you build up the coverage with a lighter shade that ends up blending out really nicely. And then, obviously, it would be really important at that point to dust it with a loose powder to make it set.
00:42:06 It is just really hard not to; you have to set it, basically, I think.
Bryan Barron: Kimberly, what concealer do you recommend for someone with Pam's skin tone? Pam, you mentioned your skin is fair?
Pam: Very fair.
Bryan Barron: Like Irish porcelain? Are you a natural blonde?
Pam: I'm not Irish, but no, I'm almost an auburn. I lighten my hair, just like a dark brown.
00:42:32 Kind of like Paula's dark brown, and when I lighten it a little bit, I mean, I like look Lucille Ball, so I have got a lot of red pigmentation, they tell me. And so, I'm very fair, and the red comes out. But I'm not really red. I'm not reddish, I'm just really fair.
Bryan Barron: Kimberly, do you have a couple of specific, either cream or liquid, concealers that you would recommend Pam check out?
Kimberly Heintzman: There are. There are three off the top of my head.
00:43:00 Besides the Paula's Choice one that I have tried, I definitely think that is a really lovely creamy - it has nice coverage. For something a little bit more pigmented, as I spoke of before, I love Cover Blend. It has a great crease resistant feature to it, which I love for around the eye area, because we all have fine lines, and that is a challenge in its own is trying to get the concealer not to settle into the fine lines.
00:43:30 So they have a great concealer. I know that a lot of my clients over the years have said that they love Laura Mercier concealers. They always had a reputation...
Bryan Barron: Yeah. That's the one that I was thinking of.
Kimberly Heintzman: Oh, very good.
Bryan Barron: It is trickier to work with, though, because I know with her original, the secret camouflage, is that what you are referring to?
Kimberly Heintzman: Mm-hmm.
Bryan Barron: That gives you two shades in one palette. So, Pam, you would have to play a little bit of a mix doctor in your bathroom, and try to figure out the ratio.
00:43:59 But, it can be a bit challenging and daunting at first, but as Kimberly said earlier, once you get the hang of it, you might be surprised at how good you are at it, and you won't ever want to go back to just using a single shade.
Pam: I never thought of that. I really appreciate that. I have tried so many things over the years, and it is a little challenging.
Kimberly Heintzman: I know. I have heard this. It is very challenging. So, try the two shades, use some of the tips that I mention with patting it into the skin, and then letting it sit, and then doing the next layer, and trying not to have too much product all at once.
00:44:37 Just really thin, sheer layers, with high pigment, and just build it up.
Daynah Burnett: Maybe we can send her a couple shades of our concealer that you she can play with? What do you think?
Bryan Barron: Yes. Let's do that. Let's send Pam - actually, let's just send her the lighter shade, because she has a fair skin tone like me. So let's send her soft ivory. And then, Pam, we are going to send you the concealer brush, as well, so you can play around with either applying the concealer with a brush under your eye area, it is nice and tapered to let you get into every corner.
00:45:12 Or you can dab on the concealer with your ring finger, blend it out very softly, and then go back in with the brush, and smooth everything out. And as Kimberley said, thin layers. That is such an important tip. I remember back from my days of doing makeup at the counters, and we would do half of the woman's face, and then show her how to do the other half, and give them the opportunity to use the products right then and there.
00:45:38 And almost without exception, they would just grab way more product than they needed, and they would say, "See, I can't get it to look right." And I would say, "That's because you are putting on four times more than I did!"
Kimberly Heintzman: Mm-hmm. Very true. I have one little tiny tip to add to that. It is something that gets overlooked, is the little inner corner of our eye, right on the sides of our nose, that little inner corner right there. If that is not properly concealed, along with under the eye, what it does is it actually casts a shadow underneath the eye.
00:46:15 You could put the whole concealer look on under the eye, and it would still look dark. So, always make sure to go into that inner corner. And a lot of concealers these days make really great eye shadow bases. So they are multi-functional, and you can use it around the entire eye area, and it creates a great base for your color on your lid.
Bryan Barron: So no eye shadow primers if you are doing that, right?
Kimberly Heintzman: You can. You can play around with it. Yeah, you can try it out. It is kind of a multi-functional product.
Bryan Barron: Thank you for brining that up.
00:46:45 That is an excellent point, Kimberly. That is absolutely an area that a lot of people miss. And, I think, experiment with that, try putting concealer in that area can feel a bit awkward at first, and using a brush really, really helps, especially if you have stubbier fingers; it is really hard to get into that area, but a brush will allow you to do it.
00:47:05 And then you can use a sponge very carefully, a triangular sponge like Kimberly mentioned, and softly blend that out.
Daynah Burnett: Well we have a question here from Debbie in Arizona, and she has just started wearing makeup. And she is wondering what she should look for in a powder. Debbie, you are on the air.
Debbie: Hi. I'm calling from Southern Arizona, and I am looking for sun protection. I'm 49 years old, and I just started wearing liquid foundation this last year. I have broken capillaries to cover.
00:47:39 And I notice that, well, I've only bought one powder so far, that is why I called the show to maybe save some money on trying out different products. But I have a - let's see - it says "translucent light mineral face powder with an SPF 16." But when I put it on, I notice it changes the color of my foundation, and I feel like I look too light, too white. And it is a translucent color by Physician's Formula.
00:48:08 And so I was going to ask for a recommendation for setting my liquid foundation with a powder.
Kimberly Heintzman: Oh, very good. Does the liquid foundation that you are using have SPF in it?
Debbie: Well, I have been using the Revlon ColorStay. It only has an SPF of 6, but I like the coverage because I have one, actually, fairly large broken capillary, and then several small ones. And it covers really well.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay. Well, this is an interesting, a great question. And I am glad that you called in, because something that I think is really important to know about powders, and I have read about this in Paula's book, is that powders with SPF, they have to be liberally applied in order to get the full effect of the sun protection.
00:48:58 And I'm a little concerned; I'm not sure, your foundation doesn't have a full 15, and I like to recommend products that have at least a 15 in them. So, what I would love for you to do is to find a foundation, or I'm sorry, a powder that offers a little bit more SPF if that is what you are relying on for your sun protection. And, are you guys in agreement with me on this?
Desiree Stordahl: Yes. Absolutely.
00:49:27 What was the SPF that you said that the product was?
Debbie: The powder is SPF 16. And the foundation is an SPF 6, which is why I was looking for an SPF powder, because the foundation doesn't have enough SPF. And I do live in Southern Arizona.
Bryan Barron: Yeah, you should, you know, with the sun you guys get down there, you may even want to prep your skin before foundation with a product rated SPF 30, to really make sure you are getting that protection.
00:50:00 Because even with a liberal, a lot of women would find that a liberal application of foundation with sunscreen, in order to get the necessary sun protection on the label, is just more foundation than they want to wear on a daily basis. And without question, if you are using a foundation with sunscreen as your sole source of sun protection, and you are doing a sheer layer, or you are only maybe spot applying. You start at the center of your face and kind of blend out until it is almost gone at the jaw line, that is not enough.
00:50:30 You absolutely need something else to bolster that protection.
Debbie: I see. Well, I also have blackheads, which is why I don't like to put primers or moisturizers and stuff on.
00:50:47 The oily skin and the blackheads, I kind of like just doing foundation, and then I am looking for a powder.
Kimberly Heintzman: Mm-hmm. Have you been using the Revlon product for a long time?
Debbie: No. I only started wearing makeup about a year ago.
00:51:04 I always thought my face looked great naturally. But now I'm 49.
Kimberly Heintzman: You want a little something to even it out a little bit. I actually really have fallen in love with the All Bases Covered foundation from Paula's Choice. And, I love that because it has enough coverage that it evens out the skin tone, and I feel like that would be a really great product for you to try.
00:51:32 And then you could even just still use the powder that you have. I think it is a good idea to try some different formulas of foundations. That is my best recommendation. And it is really important if you are not going to do SPF underneath the foundation, because it sounds to me like maybe your skin is a little congested because of the blackheads, so using a water-based foundation with an SPF 15, and then maybe the powder that you are using on top of it.
00:52:05 I think that would be a great suggestion.
Desiree Stordahl: So, Debbie, we will send you one of our foundations for you to try.
Kimberly Heintzman: That's so sweet.
Debbie: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Because I haven't tried a lot of products. That's why I called, to kind of get product recommendations, so I don't waste a lot of money just trying things out.
Kimberly Heintzman: Sure.
Bryan Barron: Exactly. And, Debbie, we have your email address. And one of us will be in touch with you, because I think we can get your skin back to the point where you don't necessarily have to rely on makeup to feel good about your skin.
00:52:38 Absolutely nothing wrong with wearing foundation as a base for the rest of your makeup, and as any professional makeup artist would tell you, if you are going to wearing color cosmetics, blush, eye shadows, and the like, you need a base for those products to cling to. Putting powder blush and eye shadow over bare skin is just never going to look as good as when it is laid down over a nice canvas of foundation and powder.
00:53:04 One more comment in regard to Debbie's question on the issue of translucent powders. Those can be tricky. We see translucent, and we think, "Oh, it is going to go on colorless; it is not going to change the color of my skin." Sometimes, depending on the texture of the product, or how you apply it, they absolutely do change the color of your skin. And it is almost always toward making them lighter or more ashy.
00:53:30 So, I'm not saying there aren't good translucent powders out there, but if you are looking at that type of a powder, just really evaluate how it looks in daylight. More often than not, it isn't truly translucent, and you may be better off finding a powder from the same line that actually matches your skin tone, or is much closer to the foundation shade you are using.
Desiree Stordahl: There was actually a really good translucent powder I just reviewed from Smashbox. It is called their Photoset Finishing Powder SPF 15. And it really does go on pretty imperceptibly.
00:54:02 And it has a really nice texture and finish to it. So that is a good one to check out. A little bit pricy, it is $28. But it is a nice translucent loose powder.
Bryan Barron: Great. And you can go to Sephora and test that out. That is where we typically see Smashbox. And Sephora is the place to play with makeup.
Daynah Burnett: Do we have time for one last caller? I think this is a good one. We have got Elizabeth from Florida. And I think she could really use Kimberly's expertise. Elizabeth, you are on the air.
Elizabeth: Thank you.
00:54:34 Hi Kimberly. I actually fell, I fainted, and I have a gash on my head. It has now been six months, and I have been putting scar treatment on it, but it is actually very small, but I am self-conscious. It is probably less than a half inch long, and it probably - it looks more like a deep wrinkle, but it is vertical, rather than horizontal.
Bryan Barron: Ah!
Elizabeth: Yeah. That's what my doctor said, too.
00:55:02 And I was really wondering if there - I mean, I have been looking at all of the really thick foundations that we used to have so many years ago, but I can't find anything that will fill it in in time.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay. So the skin is completely healed and it is an actual scar? Okay, so you are looking for something to fill it, you want to fill it in, and then you want to cover it? You want to put something over it?
Elizabeth: Yes.
Kimberly Heintzman: Okay.
00:55:32 Oh, wow, that is a tricky question. I mean, without seeing it, it is hard to see how deep it is, and what would actually work. But, off the top of my head, there are a few products that I am thinking of. One of them that works great as a real concentrated primer is by Smashbox. And it is the Photo Finish Targeted Pore and Line Primer. So, what that does is that is for really deeper creases in the skin, really large pores, and possibly it might be something that you could try that would maybe fill in the scar and smooth out the skin just a little bit.
00:56:11 And it is not like a traditional primer. It is concentrated so it really has more of like a putty-like texture.
Bryan Barron: Yeah, I was going to say spackle.
Kimberly Heintzman: Yeah, exactly!
Bryan Barron: It is. There are some primers out there whose thicker texture, it does serve as a bit of a soft spackle. It could be used for any sort of indentation in the skin, whether it is from a superficial scar, or a wrinkle. It is not going to do anything for a raised scar, or a jagged scar.
00:56:40 Those can be especially tricky to conceal. So then what is next, Kimberly, after she puts that on? Just proceed with makeup as usual?
Kimberly Heintzman: Yes. Definitely. And, where is this located, is it on top of your head? I'm sorry, I missed that.
Elizabeth: Yes. I it is right at the hair line, at the very middle of my forehead.
00:57:04 It is not that large but it is large enough.
Kimberly Heintzman: You notice it, yes. And do you wear foundation on your face?
Elizabeth: I do.
Kimberly Heintzman: Oh good. So, I think if you just blend your foundation up, and like I was saying earlier, I mentioned that you can use the concealer on top of the foundation to achieve maximum coverage. And I would find a concealer that matches your foundation, just pat it in right on top, and set it with some powder. And I think you will be really impressed with using something that is more like a spackle.
00:57:40 I think you will get great results with that.
Elizabeth: Well that is what I was looking for, a spackle, exactly. Thank you very much.
Kimberly Heintzman: You are welcome.
Bryan Barron: All right. Thanks for calling Elizabeth. And we are just about to the end of the hour, and so it is time to thank Kimberly Heintzman. Kimberly, thank you so much for joining us tonight.
Kimberly Heintzman: Thank you. My pleasure.
Daynah Burnett: Thank you, Kimberly.
Kimberly Heintzman: Thanks for having me.
Bryan Barron: For your tips, and we will be in touch, and have you on again in the future, because I know the topic of foundation, and any sort of concealment for flaws is, as I'm sure you see in your day-to-day work, it is a big issue.
00:58:22 It hits on the very essence of a person's self-esteem.
Kimberly Heintzman: Mm-hmm.
Bryan Barron: It is more serious makeup, and it is does require more skill. It is certainly not as fun as shopping for lip gloss, but at the same time, this is great information. So, Kimberly, again, thanks for joining us. And we will be in touch in the future.
Kimberly Heintzman: Very good. Thank you all. Have a great evening.
Bryan Barron: You too, Kimberly.
Kimberly Heintzman: Thanks.
Bryan Barron: And to our listeners, thanks for joining us tonight. Let me tell you real quick about our upcoming shows. Next week, February 7, we are going to be talking to you about how to get rid of dark spots and uneven skin tone. There are a ton of new products out there claiming to help with this common problem, from sun damage, and from pregnancy, and what not.
00:59:09 We will help you get to the bottom of it, and make sense of it. We will tell you what works. On Valentine's Day, back by popular demand, we are going to be talking about perfect manicures and pedicures at home. We will be talking with nail expert Jamie Schrabeck. She is wonderful, and probably the only nail guru I have ever met.
00:59:29 And on February 21, tune into hear us talk about three essentials that everyone needs - men, women, anyone who wants to get rid of hair - for an unbelievably smooth shave. We are doing our best to keep you beautifully informed, every Tuesday night at 6pm Pacific Time. Our shows are available on iTunes, so you can come to, and listen to archived shows. And we have transcripts as well. So, if you missed anything tonight, come visit us at, and get the full scoop. Thanks for listening. Good night.
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